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I have heard 2 schools of thought from two different instructors.
When you do the 2 hand pluck you should trap the hands for control.
Also, when you have a front choke with a push, you trap the arms at the same time as the elbow strike.
Then we discussed the nontrapping methods that another instructor told us.
I figure if the time comes just don’t stop and you’ll be good, but I would like to know the correct way it should be done.
As it was described to me from these instructors:
two hand pluck from neutral stance:
first- two hand pluck, groin kick, eye gouge, elbow strike, knee strikes, & hammer fist
second- two hand pluck, groin kick,secure the hands and head butt
from the front being pushed:
first- raise arm, break choke, elbow strike, elbow strike, grab and knee strikes, hammer fist
second- raise arm, break choke, secure arms, elbow strike, switch legs and knee strikes
These are 2 very different instructors and the first one has been a KM instructor for several years. The second instructor has been a KM instructor for a couple of years. I’m just trying to figure out what is the correct way of approaching the technique side of this.
I hope this isn’t real confusing.
Not trying to be a smarta$$ but to me the the ‘right’ way is the way that gets you the hell out of there. The attacker ain’t gonna know you did it wrong ;).
Um, let’s see (have to run this through in my head). On the 2 handed pluck, that follows with a groin kick so by then they’re probably doubled over. You could go for knees or possibly elbow #7 or push them off and run the hell away.
Now choke from the front with a push, at least running it through, it does seem like you trap the hands(I’m right handed) with my left left arm while delivering the elbow with my right arm. That’s how I remember being taught anyway 🙂
Not taken as a smart a$$.
I completely agree and no one would know or care about the difference, but I just wanted to know.
Thanks
Hahaha, “Mara Jade, Welcoming Committee”. 🙂
As for the choke, I think you would technically trap the hands at first, but you can let go after the first or second counter if it gives you more mobility. For choke from the front, defend/kick/trap, then you could hold on to one of the attacker’s hands/wrists while moving in for knees.
Choke with a push, the way I learned it, the arm comes up, then you turn to the side, then, as the defending arm comes crashing down, your other arm comes up to catch the attacker’s hands/arms. Then you can give an elbow or two while still holding on to his hands with your left, let go once you move in to give knees.
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GiantkillerHey, I’m not a “Senior Member” anymore? 🙁 Man, I guess I should have started the damn welcome thread… 🙂
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Giantkiller“second- two hand pluck, groin kick,secure the hands and head butt”
It’s best not to think of self defense syllogistically, since the attacker’s response will dictate further combatives; however, I’m not sure why anyone would put groin kick then head butt in a “sequence”. It is of course possible to do, but I think the natural reaction to the groin kick would mitigate the usefulness of a follow-up head butt.
As for the techniques, if you can get the traps, great. If you can’t, don’t go “chasing” them. Obviously if the hands are trapped, you know where they are, and you know they aren’t hitting you.
quote Giant Killer:Hey, I’m not a “Senior Member” anymore? 🙁 Man, I guess I should have started the damn welcome thread…_________________
GiantkillerYeah, what happened there? I still wanna know who’s wonderful idea it was to change me to Welcoming Committe:D. I don’t mind, actually I’m flattered 😀 but I know there’s other people who are here way more than me…like YOU for instance;).
Oh Sean, getting any ideas???
Wouldn’t the groin kick make the attacker bend forward making the headbutt too risky on actually hitting the attackers head causing injuring to yourself maybe even knocking yourself out
As far as the headbutt goes, after the groin kick, I agree. I’m just going by what was told to me by different instructors. 🙁
I figured that I would do whatever I could at the time. Hopefully that will never happen.
Thanks for all of the responses.
One thing that John & Jarrett both pointed out during phase was that the techniques were meant to address the immediate danger, in this case the initial choke, from there the combatants are subjective to the variables as they present themselves.
In essence once the danger is removed and a control point achieved personal preference takes over dictated by the attackerís body position. To quote John ìI really like jump spinning back kicks but it doesnít mean Iím going to do one in this situationî (JW please excuse my paraphrase) The point being what combatants make sense to do.
As Ryan mentioned focusing on the EXACT combatants takes away from the core of Krav Maga which is to be able to react as the situation presents itself.
Yes, I believe the combatives given are just a guideline. Don’t stop in the middle of your counters thinking you are a bad person for losing the traps – just continue beating the crap out of the attacker any way you can.
Yes, headbutt seems strange in this scenario. I wonder if it could work if the attacker is over a foot taller than you, so when his body collapses from the groin kick, his head may be level with yours in that case. But still, elbows/punches may work better in that situation.
mara, I guess it’s because you started the welcome thread. Anyway, sounds pretty cool! 🙂
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GiantkillerMiche – Thanks for that link. It was great to see Dave B. in action!
As for the technique and subsequent combatives, a great teacher told me to address the immediate threat while simultaneously sending a counterattack (groin kick, in this case). He told us that our next thought is to “go hunting.” What he meant, of course, is that we should continue our attack with the best strike we could throw at the softest and most accessible target available.
In other words, we overcome the attack and kick ass.
That is all.
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