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Yikes – Not a lot of details, but this happened at the hospital on Cape Cod… This will be an interesting situation to see develop.
What gives with Massachusetts hospitals this month, anyway? An attempted rape two weeks ago in Mass. General, a guy goes crazy and stabs a doctor and is then shot and killed by a security guard last week and now this…
Death of Cape Cod patient after scuffle investigated
By Associated Press | Saturday, October 31, 2009 | http://www.bostonherald.com | Local Coverage
BARNSTABLE – Authorities are investigating after a scuffle between a patient and security workers at Cape Cod Hospital led to the patientís death two weeks later.
The Cape Cod Times reported that a 35-year-old man, whom officials did not identify, allegedly began acting irrationally after coming to the hospital Oct. 9 to visit his wife.
The man was taken for a psychiatric evaluation, but started running through the hospital.
WXTK radio reported security put the man in a choke hold, rendering him unconscious. The hospital said security was trying to stop him from hurting others.
The Times reported the man was placed on life support because of a lack of oxygen to his brain, and died earlier this week.
Cape and Islands District Attorney Michael OíKeefe said his office was investigating.
Article URL: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1208684
Re: Choke restraint leads to death
steve- what is up with mass.? Has it always been this violent or is it the fact that the libs think obama is gonna pardon them all that’s made it go this far?
Re: Choke restraint leads to death
Wow, he must have been hanging on to that choke after he passed out. We are not allowed in Oregon to use the caratoid restraint, not even taught it at the academy it’s so taboo…. (not that security guards go to the academy lol)
Kylestyle913, be careful poking the political bear… 🙂
Re: Choke restraint leads to death
We’re not allowed to use it, either. During one warrant arrest that got interesting, I ended up on the bad guy’s back and snaked my arm right under his chin and was just about to send him to naptime. I then heard the voice of a defense attorney in my head ask me to state what day at the police academy I had learned to use such a tactic… I let him go and it just ended up worse.
Kyle, I’m behind enemy lines, I assure you!
Re: Choke restraint leads to death
Without knowing any additional facts my Guess would be the same as Kirsten. Guys have “chokes”/carotids/LVNRs/sleepers/etc slapped on them “all the time” in training (BJJ/submission type), some going all the way out, with very very few tragic effects that I’ve seen/heard of (IIRC only read about one training death online due to carotid).
Wonder if that security company or hospital has a use of force policy?
Added: I think it’s a shame that you guys can’t use a carotid/LVNR. As you know, it’s an excellent and effective tool. 🙁
Re: Choke restraint leads to death
Sounds more like ‘excited delirium’. An improperly applied neck restraint is possible. (I HATE the term choke unless somebody actually means to kill). Sounds like the guy went berserk without provocation. Every Taser related death has been ruled as excited delirium. It is entirely possible that this is the case as well.
Re: Choke restraint leads to death
An update on this story was just published. Evidently, this happened 3 weeks ago! The guy lingered on life support and died the other day. Not a lot of new details on how this happened.
Resqr1 – I thought about this being due to ‘excited delirium’ as well. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
Don – I think you and Kirsten are on the money. Think about being in a big fight with a crazy guy (I think that one article said that several of the staff were hurt by the bad guy), you’re scared, very amped up and determined not to let the guy attack anyone again. It would be very easy to hang on waaaaay too long.
Re: Choke restraint leads to death
Update: The story has changed now… (excerpt of article)
CC Hospital: No chokehold used on unruly man
By George Brennan
[email protected]November 01, 2009 3:16 PMHYANNIS ñ Cape Cod Hospital is denying broadcast reports that a patient who died three weeks after being subdued by security guards was put in a chokehold.
ìThe hospitalís review of this matter to date shows no deviation from established restraint protocols,î Cape Cod Healthcare spokesman David Reilly said in a prepared statement.
David J. Ryan, 59, of Mashpee, died Thursday after being on life support at Cape Cod Hospital for three weeks following the Oct. 9 altercation. Ryan had been acting irrationally when he came to the hospital to visit his wife on that date, the Times quoted sources as saying.
Hospital employees called the Barnstable police to help deal with Ryan. He was sent to the emergency room for a psychiatric evaluation.
A source told the Times that after Ryan elected to leave the emergency room, security tried to restrain him and a scuffle ensued.
ìThere is no indication that a `chokeholdí was ever applied to Mr. Ryan or that excessive/undue force was used at any point during his restraint,î Reilly said. ìIn fact, our security personnel receive training in de-escalation techniques, and those techniques were utilized before Mr. Ryan began to lash out.î
Employees were injured in the scuffle, Reilly told the Times previously, and staff members were restraining him to prevent further injuries.
http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091101/NEWS11/911019980/-1/NEWS
Re: Choke restraint leads to death
Most don’t apply choke properly and do bar arm choke instead which causes most damage.Have applied choke while on the job,until back up arrived. Just maintain tight pressure if subject still is froggy,apply more pressure with heel strikes to privates.Flashback sorry.
Re: Choke restraint leads to death
Jon Pascal tells a story about an Oakland PD “SRO” that used a caratoid on a kid called “Knockout” (or something similar) and it was the only thing that ended the fight… With one punch the juvenile KO’d his partner, then came after him. He went thru all his weapons except handgun in the fight and eventually got on his back and set the choke, even thought the kid was banging him up against a wall. Choked him out and ended it. They are legal there, thank goodness or it may have ended up way worse.
Re: Choke restraint leads to death
quote Kirsten:Jon Pascal tells a story about an Oakland PD “SRO” that used a caratoid on a kid called “Knockout” (or something similar) and it was the only thing that ended the fight… With one punch the juvenile KO’d his partner, then came after him. He went thru all his weapons except handgun in the fight and eventually got on his back and set the choke, even thought the kid was banging him up against a wall. Choked him out and ended it. They are legal there, thank goodness or it may have ended up way worse.I hate the thought of how many officers are killed / injured every year because of their fear of taking necessary action to protect themselves and to stop aggression by a bad guy. Thanks for posting that, Kirsten.
Re: Choke restraint leads to death
Just my opinion,they tie the hands of our law enforcement
officers.Steve a guy here in Knoxville Tn chocked his foster
son to death.He did not release when he passed out.Re: Choke restraint leads to death
Seems an overreaction IMO & a shame that an effective tool (carotid choke) is taken away
from the LE toolkit but, what does management fear more than lawsuits, bad press & pressure from the mayor’s office (?).Interesting white paper article on LE choke holds from some MD’s – the good stuff begins in discussion & conclusions.. from 1982 (!)
http://www.charlydmiller.com/LIB/1982neckholds.html
They come to the conclusion that arm bar chokes are very dangerous and with the carotid choke, some risk of injury or death exists in persons (generally males over 40) who already have some underlying heart & artery disease and/or are sensitive to pressure on their carotid sinus, which can potentially cause cardiac arrest. Also, there is discussion of the increased dangers while struggling with an uncooperative ‘customer’, someone on drugs or appearing to resist (in the perspective of the choker) while having an uncontrollable suffocation reflex.
This could explain why the carotid chokes are used often & without incident in sports like Judo & MMA as the participants are likely to be in good health & physical condition..
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