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Re: Chokes
I tore my right quad muscle on day 1 / day 2 of Phase C. I got hit with an elbow on day 1. It caught me right on my mid-thigh. It hurt, but I knew that you can’t give in to ouchies, particularly at phase! So we kept going, no big deal.
The leg was sore the next day, but it didn’t slow things down. I was able to function fine. Then I got kicked in the exact same spot. Big ouchie. Hard to shake off. But, as someone has said before, it ain’t scrapbooking, so I kept going. We did ground work for about an hour and I knew that it wasn’t good. We stopped for lunch then. And when I stopped moving, the leg started swelling. I got ice on it, but it didn’t stop. The thigh then hardened – just like touching the bench I was sitting on! I couldn’t stand up. Bad times…
I got taken to the hospital by one of my RHEK friends. The doc ordered x-rays, all negative. He told me he thought that my knee was injured. I didn’t think so. I got an ultrasound done when I got home and it showed the tear.
Here’s a couple of pics. I’m on light duty for at least two weeks…
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Re: Chokes
It was during some type of ground work, although I can’t recall which specific technique we were doing at the time. It was just one of those things that happens…
Phase C is a big deal to me. I had a self-pity party for a couple of days, but am over that now (for the most part!). I’m focused on getting better, making my students the absolute best that they can be, making myself the strongest and most prepared that I can be and getting back to Phase C!
Re: Chokes
quote loneagle:I am wondering why so much time is spent in class defending against the choke. This is the one where the hands are encircled around the neck. Why isn’t more training spent at more common attacks. Sucker punch, headbutt, etc. Wouldn’t this be important at the beginning level.I found this info about the most common attacks-
- Aggressor threatens potential victim and invades his personal space. The victim responds by pushing the aggressor away. This is normally followed by the Aggressor striking first, to the head.
- A swinging punch to the head.
- A front clothing grab, one handed, followed by punch to the head.
- A front clothing grab, two hands, followed by a head butt.
- A front clothing grab, two hands, followed by a knee to the groin.
- A bottle, glass, or ashtray to the head.
- A lashing kick to groin/lower legs.
- A broken bottle/glass jabbed to face.
- A slash with knife, most commonly a 3 to 4″ lock blade knife or kitchen utility knife.
- A grappling style head lock.
I was wondering the same thing. I have been taking classes in NYC for about a month and we are doing the chokes including standing in the middle of 2 or 3 people and having to react to different types of chokes. We are doing a bit of kicking as well. Is it the consensus of people here that punches and defending punches will be taught at the yellow belt level?
Thanks.Re: Chokes
Defenses against chokes and punches are part of your KM foundation. KM teaches you to defend yourself from a variety of angles. You gotta learn to walk before you can run.
Keep going and you will learn the other attacks but without a foundation, you’re gonna be wasting your time.
Believe me, I speak from 6 years experience here:wav:
That ‘common attacks’ info-curious to know where you got it from?
Re: Chokes
I still think to much time is spent on these chokes. I spent 4 years as an infantryman in the US Army and have seen plenty of attacks in the bars we used to frequent. IMO the sucker punch is the one that’s used the most.
Re: Chokes
your concern is well founded. How many times have you had someone walk up to you and start choking. WHen I asked my instructor about this (about three years ago), his answer was similar to many you’ve seen. Reaction time, reacting quickly with natural movements to an aggressive encounter against a sensitive target (your neck)….and learning an effective pluck. THESE are what you are learning/practicing when you spend all that time on chokes. Now, chokes from behind (and in front) with a push…these you might see. But really, you are building a foundation.
As for the sucker punch….knowing that its coming is the only defense. If you see it…well, you’ll learn 360’s (if you haven’t already) that stop the outside punches. I’ve had punches thrown at me more than once. Situational awareness was much more improtant than technique when a wild looping sucker punch came my way.
Re: Chokes
I don’t agree here. The best way to train reaction is by sparring/timing drills. It also allows you to overcome fear. This is why boxers, thai boxers are superior strikers.
Re: Chokes
Also, why aren’t the mental aspects of a street attack covered more? This is an important area that needs to be adressed. Nothing is mentioned in the book Complete Krav Maga and it’s not discussed enough in classes.
Re: Chokes
Sparring teaches/trains Many great principles and attributes. It does NOT, however, train reaction/response from neutral stances and/or guard down positions.
What mental aspects are you talking about? Mindset, awareness, thinking on the fly, what?
Re: Chokes
Exactly. How does sparring teach you how to deal with the sucker punches you refer to? I’m in my fighting stance, both eyes fixed on you, with my hands up. Sucker punches are no longer an issue. Grabbing my collar? No longer an issue.
Sparring is great. For a level one student, learingn to deal effectively instinctively to a violent assault is key. Pluck. Inside and outside defense vs. strikes. Then, we can move on.
Mindset? You mean like the adrenaline dump you have to deal with? There are intense stress drills than can replicate it to a degree, and training hard takes some out of it, but there really is nothing I’ve experienced that prepared you for it fully except it happeneing. Since I’ve been in Krav, I had one very, very close encounter, that only ended when I made an obvious show of using my arm to move my wife behind me, and squaring up to the guy. Hands were in an “passive ready” coming up. I didn’t go fighting stance, but I made it very clear that anything he was bringing, I was answering. Sure, I might lose, but I was no longer an easy target. He walked away. I think my use of the “mental aspect” saved me either a beating or the trouble of explaning what just happened. Still, afterwards, when the adreniline died down, I was a shaking mess. Is this what you think you should be learning instead of defending against a choke?
I encourage you to keep training. I thin kyou will find the base you build by thorough study of the principles of Krav will serve you well as you get into the more advanced levels. I hope to hear back frm you in a few years that you now understand and agree. If you don’t…I hope you still get all you can from your training, and find a system that more suits you.
Best of luck.
Re: Chokes
If I may add a few comments here,
The choke is very common during altercations. Specifically during domestic incidents. In Nevada a law was just passed specifically addressing the choke. It is now attempted murder if the hands go to the throat during an altercation not simple assault.
The methods used in training for these chokes can certainly be analyzed though. For instance choke from behind with a push. This is not at all a common attack. In fact it is more likely that the attacker will grab a handful of shirt from behind and push you. But its one of those things that is in the curriculum and it is taught to emphasize the idea that no matter how the person chokes you, you can escape by following the principles not the specific techniques. So do not bog your mind down with over analyzing the techniques, seek a true understanding of the principles.
Sparring has nothing to do with dealing with a surprise attack. You must remember that there are technical and tactical differences between self defense and fighting. They are not mutually exclusive but they are close. The idea that a person who spars a lot is less likely to be sucker punched or for that matter more prepared to respond to a sucker punch is laughable.
Taken a step further, the idea that a person who spars a lot is actually a better fighter under stress and in the street is also laughable. Sparring is high stakes tag. Thats all it is. You see an opportunity to hit someone and you strike. You see a punch or kick coming and you evade it or defend.
Again. If you are spending more time sparring than you are dealing with tackles, bearhugs, infighting, knife, stick and gun defenses I would submit that either you or your instructor have never been in a street fight.
Do not be foolish enough to confuse your ability on the mat with gloves and gear with your ability to survive a violent encounter in the street, which will almost certainly include a weapon, muliple attackers, an element of surprise and unpredictability.
Re: Chokes
FWIW,
I agree with both Steve and Donavin, sparring has little to do with a street attack. I would submit however, that while we cannot duely replicate an assault, we can train in such a way as to be “as ready as is possible” to take on such an incident. We pressure test everything. (and please, don’t come on here and tell me that KMWW doe not pressure test). We simply put you under extreme pressure after some pretty exhausting exercises and conditioning drills. This is in no way a sparring session, we come at you very strong (within the context of everyone going home with all their digits and not too many bruises) and keep coming with different problems of which you have very little time to react. We are open hand, knife and gun and various other problems (ie Bat Bottle etc.) Just thought I would throw that in as part of a good thread! Hope you guys are all well!!!! That is All, Carry- On
JL
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