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My wife and I have recently started Krav Maga and are very happy with the fitness aspect as well as the self defense moves. I have been reading about Krav Maga and it seems that there is a differendce between the civillian and the Law Enforcement / Millitary versions of Krav. I am wondering if we are getting a watered down version of Krav With the classes that are available to the public? Any detail and or comments are appreciated.
It’s all about context and goals. LEO/MIL have different goals and context than do civilians (in most cases, goals of LEOs are different than those of MIL.) There’s nothing \”watered down\”; you’re civilians, so you get a curriculum designed for you.
That said, the self defense and combatives portions are nearly identical.
Mark, good question. Actually, I would say you’re being trained to do MORE damage than an LEO because, under the law you’re allowed to do anything necessary to defend yourself, but an LEO is required to use the minimum amount of force necessary. So, as a civilian you actually have more freedom to use force to protect yourself.
Plus, I don’t want my 5’4”, 110 lb wife to try to restrain any attacker.
The version taught here in the US is more vanilla, because we don’t have to worry about the things the Israelis do.
If you stick with it, and your instructor knows and is willing, you can learn the more agressive versions. Like of knife defenses for example, where instead of controlling the knife and taking it away, you control the knife and stab the attacker all in one motion.
My instructor has taught us the \”more advanced\” versions after we’ve mastered the more basic, civialian techniques.
I’m sure the civilaian version is just fine for SD.
Jeff is on the money I so believe.
As an LEO, though you may have a higher likely hood of confronting dangerous situations, you are still restrained to maintain a \”professional\” demeanor. From what I have read on the site and talked to other students, the LE side of Krav Maga is focused on weapon retention and use-of force issues. One use-of-force issue is closed-fist v. palm strike. Using a closed-fist in striking a suspect, inmate, etc can result in unnessesary harm and litigation, whereas using palm-strikes (open handed) are a step down in force and can be easliy used as a defense quickly if need be.
I wouldn’t say \”focused on\” weapon retention or even \”focused on\” use of force…although you are absolutely right to bring up the use of force issue.
KM for LE is at heart the same as for civilians or military. You would certainly recognize many of the techniques and the mindset. HOwever, the primary difference is the use of force issue and the task at hand. Most military units are tasked to kill (unless serving in a law enforcement capacity). Most civilians must neutralize the threat and move to safety (sometimes neutralizing the threat means extreme measures). Most LEOs are tasked with neutralizing the threat and then detaining the suspect.
These three tasks, as Ryan points out, are very different. Military units run toward danger and destroy it. Civilians can run away if the chance presents intself. Law enforcement must run toward danger and detain it, killing only if absolutely necessary. Because their missions are different, their tactics differ, and the way we train them recognizes that.
This is why working with Darren Levine has been so important to us. He is intimately familiar with the job of LEOs from beginning to end, and this has helped us improve our training tremendously.
Cyco,
You describe a palm strike as a ‘step down’ from a closed fist strike. I assume you’re talking about a ‘slap’ rather than a palm heel strike? I’ve always heard — and it feels this way when I hit a pad or bag — that a palm heel strike, properly executed, can be even more damaging than a closed fist strike.
Perhaps I’m wrong, though. I’ve never actually struck a real, live human head with a palm heel strike.
Any clarification would be cool.
Thanks!
In my class, our instructor tells us the military training tends to be brutal and emphasizes kill moves, compared to the civilian version which is effective, refined, and based more on defense.
Also, he points out that military Krav Maga is usually taught over a two week period with some refreshing, compared to the civliian curriculum that can stretch on for a decade or more.
I know where you are coming from, I used to wonder if I was being short changed by not attending the exclusive military classes. But, his explanation makes sense to me and so does John Whitman’s.
And, the military guys in my class are having fun and coming back for more.
john_mccollum,
I’m referring to the palm heel strike.
I am a Youth Explorer for a local police agency here in Boise. The small amount of self-defense training we have recieved emphasized not to present yourself as on the offensive (so presenting a closed-fisted, boxer type stance at confronting a threat is out of the question). An accusation regarding police brutality is so easy to make and the sometimes-mandatory investigation about it can be lengthy and career damaging. From what I have learned being involved in law enforcement for the past three years is that the little-things count in these situations!
I have no doubt that a palm-strike can be just as devistating as closed-fist, so I would suppose that it’s more of the use-of-force to play the \”CYA\” game incase a lawsuit ever came abound.
I don’t know if this is really krav related, but I’ve seen videos of defensive tactics and baton training where aside from physical techniques, they go over the verbal side of the conflict, telling the person to get down on the ground/stop resisting etc. This side is definintely different in the civilian section, where you learn habits like running away.
The military type training is most likely more lethal, which can be a problem for the civilian- liability issues, post traumatic stress, etc. There’s other stuff that a military person would have to consider- lots of duty gear and body armor on yourself and/or the enemy, using combatives when silence is important, etc.Palm strikes just look better on a security cam video in front of a civil jury….. Makes sence, but I really think palm heel strikes are better for people who do not train regularly. One, unless you work a heavy bag or at least pads on an ongoing basis, you are very likely to break your hand or wrist doing a knuckle punch. At the very least, you are going to bloody your knuckles. (Which, if you watch ‘cops’ that is the first thing they look at when the perp says, \”I wasn’t in no fight\”)
JC
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