Domestic Violence

[michaelmall]

Re: Domestic Violence

This style of fighting was developed as a defense against
violence,not to cause it .It is to be used when all else
fails.I do not agree with anyone using it against anyone
with out control.If they can’t control themselves,they
don’t need to train in it.And the there instructor should
be told.

[kirsten]

Re: Domestic Violence

I said it before, it’s not KM… it’s the person. The VAST majority of assaultive persons have ZERO training as opposed to those that do, at least in the cases I have dealt with.

But back to the original post… I am sorry you feel that we can’t help you or were detrimental to what you wanted, but you gave very little explanation to us. If your gut says to leave and get out- then get out, damn your family- unless they would like to take your place.

Read Gavin DeBecker’s book “The Gift of Fear”… It’s an easy read and you may find that it has some insight to what you are feeling and why you should trust your gut.

Good luck.

[kazak4x4]

Re: Domestic Violence

Not sure about others, but my trainer always taught me to run away before engaging any situation. It’s better to back off, and stay alive, than stand up and get knifed. That is the reason everyone gave you the advice of walking away. You can try to convince all the people around you, but at the end it’s your own safety that YOU have to worry about.

In my school I haven’t met anyone who seriously practices Krav and is violent. Most students are there to learn the art of SELF defense to protect their dear families and not to abuse them. But nothing is 100% perfect and I am sure your husband is learning the skills for the wrong reasons. If he doesn’t see it differently, you will NOT change his/or anyone’s minds….so it’s up to you to take actions into your hands and walk away…. alive.

Be smart, be humble, stay alive.

[farhan]

Re: Domestic Violence

First, I would like to say I am sorry that these experiences are part of your daily life. My wife is a Psychologist and a trained Domestic Abuse Counselor. Who by the way is taking KRAV MAGA.

Everyone has different ways of dealing with different things. No two people will approach the same situation the same way. So what you are reading on this thread is peoples’ approach to solving the problem. Like you said, you have not provided sufficient background and posed a question with a predetermined answer. ‘Yes the person who is abusive should not train in Krav Maga’. It would be akin to providing additional arsenal to someone who has made up their mind to hurt others. This could be a point which you have discussed with your counselors and want them to enforce or something you want to prove to your husband so that he shouldn’t pursue Krav Maga. Whatever the case maybe, you will not receive the answers which you’re searching for on this forum. This is not a controlled environment unlike a session. Every one’s two cents will be tainted with their experiences and feelings, and not to mention we are not trained professionals. Some might call you stupid because they do not want you dead and are soliciting a reaction to distance yourself from the situation. Some say any man who lays a finger on a woman is a coward and POS, because they would never do that. But are these statements conducive to someone who wants to patch things up and work on amending the situation? Not really. But then again we don’t know the whole situation. There might be kids involved. Who knows?

There was a woman who used to frequent a women’s shelter where my wife worked. She would come every time with bruises and tears. And my wife would come home and tell me, ‘we can’t make the decision for her and she won’t make the decision till she has had enough’. She was offered transportation, room and board and a job but she never took the leap and one day she stopped coming. No one knows why, but statistics point to one fact more so than others. The question you have to ask yourself and more importantly answer it, have you had enough? Can you risk being another statistic?

You might convince him to stop training in Krav Maga in hopes he won’t use it against you today, but will he stop using his hands?

[phlegmon27]

Re: Domestic Violence

I spent 12 years in the ER experiencing the harsh realities of DV. I’m not going to tell you to stay or go. I will say that if there is alcoholism, a history of violence, and/or someone who is “untouchable” (Police officer, lawyer, judge, politician, etc) involved, it usually ends bad. Like body-bag bad.

That said; the problem is the person, not the discipline. He could study knitting, and attack you with a knitting-needle. That doesn’t mean he needs to quit knitting. Unfortunately, asking a law-enforcement officer to not train in the combative arts is not going to fly. This put him at a very real disadvantage while doing his job. That may be why nobody is backing you up on this.

You have my deepest sympathies, and I hope with all my heart that you find the support and answers you need.

[kirsten]

Re: Domestic Violence

Cops, judges, lawyers and politicians are NOT untouchable. They are supposed to stand for all that is good and right. They are to be held even more accountable than the public they serve. NO person in our society is untouchable. That is why you take it to the county agency, the department of justice, the FBI or to the press if need be. I think the “blue brotherhood” is more dead than the public realizes… its all media driven hype or small town talk…

Sorry, I just had to deal with my feminist, man hating, police hating college class tonight and I am on a rant… LOL

[phlegmon27]

Re: Domestic Violence

quote Kirsten:

Cops, judges, lawyers and politicians are NOT untouchable. They are supposed to stand for all that is good and right. They are to be held even more accountable than the public they serve. NO person in our society is untouchable. That is what you take it to the county agency, the department of justice, the FBI or to the press if need be. I think the “blue brotherhood” is more dead than the public realizes… its all media driven hype or small town talk…

True, everyone CAN be held accountable for their actions. I hail from Chicago (no small town) and speak from too much heartbreaking and gut-wrenching experience to retract any of my comments. I know that it isn’t across the board. I know that the good folks far outnumber the bad. I have nothing but respect for all the cops, judges, lawyers, and politicians out there fighting for justice. I train and train with LE from almost every government agency with a goofy acronym you can think of, and they are all like brothers. I’m just saying that it happens. Less than people think, but more than it should. These are words of caution to someone in a bad situation, not a judgement against our boys in blue.

[jburtonpdx]

Re: Domestic Violence

Edited to add this — When are you going to start taking Krav Maga?

The risk with any illness related to the inablility to control oneself with something else is that they never truly become able to manage it. Alcoholics typicly dont become occasional drinkers, if they start drinking again its quite normal for them within a very short period of time to be just as sick as they were when they quit before and often they become sicker quicker.

Folks with similiar issues with violence run the same risks. A predator is a predator. Get that behaviour started and its never just a little bit, its all or nothin. If he is training he just becomes more efficient with it. However even without training, he very well might still grab that frying pan or knife in the kitchen and use it.

As has been stated training in Krav Maga is not the issue. If this person has a predisposition to using violence, training or not training will not change that. Just like the futility of thinking gun control will eliminate “gun violence”, eliminating Krav Maga training will not eliminate this persons tendancy to use physical violence.

A demonstrated predisposition to use violence will not be changed by training in Krav Maga or not training in Krav Maga.

I think the best way to put it would be — tigers that grow up in captivity and never hunt in the jungle, are still tigers. Giant claws and teeth. I would be fooling myself to think that the one in captivity that never “trained itself to hunt and fight” would be safer to me then the one from the jungle. It would still destroy and eat me if it were hungry cause its a tiger.

[jenn]

Re: Domestic Violence

quote Kirsten:

Leave the situation before you get in trouble for something you did, didn’t do, haven’t done yet, or will get blamed for doing….

It’s that simple. You always have a choice, you may not like the choices presented with, but they are there…

Krav Maga is leathal you said, well so is a stick, so is a pencil, so is a rock… its all about the person weilding the dangerous weapon, not the weapon. If you want a person dead, you can kill them. No specialized training needed. As already stated, it’s not about the training, its about the choice when, where and how to use that training.

I hope things workout and good luck.

As a former Child Protection Investigator who saw too many cases of DV & the nasty effects it had on children, I cannot agree enough with Kristen.

You are choosing to stay even tho this person uses KM techniques. You will suffer the consequences. HE has to change – not the training he does. If, as you imply, he’s in LE and the local LE aren’t doing anything, get out of the area.

And learn KM yourself.

[yoda]

Re: Domestic Violence

I’ve known several victims of DV and most of them, if not all, don’t have a choice BUT to stay… that’s the whole power game of it. I agree with the thread-starter that pushing away the question doesn’t solve the problem.

Here’s my attempt to be helpful and brutally honest:

>>>If a man trains fairly intensely … and has used what he has learned in these classes against his spouse in a drunken rage filled state,

The problem I’ve found with KM is that you’re taught to be brutal. To rush over your second thoughts and act on savage instinct. They develop a taste for violence, or if it exists, it’s sharpened. Read all that you can google for ‘brutal’ and ‘krav maga’ or similar words and you’ll find enough people are drowned out trying to say just that.

>>>does anyone out there thins there is a chance that at some point it would be safe to ever train in Krav again?

Probably never. Or only if he takes to something from the eastern meditation methods to balance out the aggression and adrenaline rushes that he’s beginning to enjoy. He may can get rid of the suggestions that hone his instinct to violence, which unfortunately is intrinsic to KM more than the other martial arts.

>>>Lastly, has anyone out there had any experience with anything of this sort? (Domestic Violence & Krav)

I’m new to KM and I’ve noticed the senior students in my class are extremely rough and cruel if they get a chance to beat on someone untrained, smaller or weaker than them. When I got to my first class, the instructor told the senior students not to hold back so that the defender could feel a real situation. I think it spurred them to being more violent, with more manic enthu, without giving the noobs time to learn how to defend themselves.

I’ve often thought since then, counting my bruises and healing time, that they’re training to be bullies, rather than defenders of women and children, sadly. Some of those holds can reduce you to tears in seconds. I wouldn’t want to live with a KM trained man.

>>>What about other similar activities? Boxing or kickboxing or even karate?

I find people who learn Judo and Tai Chi to be the most peaceful, confident, and unaggressive of the martial artists – probably because it comes with strong philosophy of non-violence attached.

All the best for the future.:)

[knees-n-bows88]

Re: Domestic Violence

quote goldenforest:

This will be my last response to you. And I would appreciate it if you would stop responding to this thread because I am looking for helpful information & opinion. I am not finding this type of information from your posts.

I don’t understand how you can say you are not being judgmental when you start out your posts with “POS coward.” That is not thoughtful
considerate answer to my main question.

Please don’t answer this next question. Just consider it before the next time you run into another victim of domestic violence…

What do you, as a victim, when you call the police when your situation is dangerous & the officers that show up are co-workers & buddies of your husband
& basically tell you to cool off & that the situation is as bad as i thought? And if i were to go to court the next day for an order of protection, they will state what THEY see (which is nothing) and I would not be likely to be awarded one. Let’s add a young child and a bed ridden parent in the house as well, both of which are related to the victim & not the perpetrator. All joint assets are in his name also.

The police that are there to protect us have & do stand for the blue line above all at times.

This is not to say ALL officers of the law do so. But when you live in a small area, good ol’ boys’ club can rule absolutely.

As in ALL EXTREME SITUATIONS, sometimes it is better to live in order to fight another day.

I doubt you would stand there & tell me that you would know better than I do, what the best way to raise my child is. You do not know WHAT my choice is based on, nor what my future plans are. I am doing what is best for MY situation & getting as much information as I can.

Running into a battle unprepared & at a disadvantage is never a great idea. So back off.

If you continue to post here, I will remove my post & not look for help in this forum any further. You will be responsible for causing me to NOT SEEK HELP in the way I need to for my own personal reasons.

I am soliciting advise publicly, but right here, I’m also saying from anyone other than you.

Though it would be easy to judge/pass judgment for staying, that’s not what I aim to do. I realize that it is in the end your choice as an adult to stay with this person and there’s nothing that anyone here can/will do about it. The change has to come from within.
What I would like to offer up to you, is that perhaps you should begin taking Krav classes, so that you can do what we all set out to do, and that is protect ourselves and those we love. The boost in self-confidence coupled with the release that the classes offer you could work wonders in anyone, especially someone that has been the victim before.
The last thing we need/want is for someone to be victimized by an insecure bully, and I hope that you find a way to grow from this as in all experiences, since that was life is-a chance to grow and learn from our past to create a better future.
Just promise that you will look into shelters and any and all help that you can receive within your community should, God forbid, anything happen again. We’re not trying to judge you or anyone, most of us here have either witnessed/experienced DV before and know how bad it can be, and are just expressing concern for you since we’re so nice and such.

Anything else please feel free to ask and we’ll do our best to help you, and give Krav a shot, it’s GREAT!

[knees-n-bows88]

Re: Domestic Violence

quote yoda:

I’ve known several victims of DV and most of them, if not all, don’t have a choice BUT to stay… that’s the whole power game of it. I agree with the thread-starter that pushing away the question doesn’t solve the problem.

Here’s my attempt to be helpful and brutally honest:

>>>If a man trains fairly intensely … and has used what he has learned in these classes against his spouse in a drunken rage filled state,

The problem I’ve found with KM is that you’re taught to be brutal. To rush over your second thoughts and act on savage instinct. They develop a taste for violence, or if it exists, it’s sharpened. Read all that you can google for ‘brutal’ and ‘krav maga’ or similar words and you’ll find enough people are drowned out trying to say just that.

>>>does anyone out there thins there is a chance that at some point it would be safe to ever train in Krav again?

Probably never. Or only if he takes to something from the eastern meditation methods to balance out the aggression and adrenaline rushes that he’s beginning to enjoy. He may can get rid of the suggestions that hone his instinct to violence, which unfortunately is intrinsic to KM more than the other martial arts.

>>>Lastly, has anyone out there had any experience with anything of this sort? (Domestic Violence & Krav)

I’m new to KM and I’ve noticed the senior students in my class are extremely rough and cruel if they get a chance to beat on someone untrained, smaller or weaker than them. When I got to my first class, the instructor told the senior students not to hold back so that the defender could feel a real situation. I think it spurred them to being more violent, with more manic enthu, without giving the noobs time to learn how to defend themselves.

I’ve often thought since then, counting my bruises and healing time, that they’re training to be bullies, rather than defenders of women and children, sadly. Some of those holds can reduce you to tears in seconds. I wouldn’t want to live with a KM trained man.

>>>What about other similar activities? Boxing or kickboxing or even karate?

I find people who learn Judo and Tai Chi to be the most peaceful, confident, and unaggressive of the martial artists – probably because it comes with strong philosophy of non-violence attached.

All the best for the future.:)

I don’t think that I could respectfully disagree any less with you on this. I’m sorry you had that experience, firstly. The reality of it is, though, that if someone attacks you in public, they’re not going to go easy while the noobs get used to it, and thats the plain and simple truth of the matter. Secondly, I’ve been in Krav for ~half a year now and of all the people i’ve trained with/spoken to/dealt with on the subject have not been bullies or anything. Krav is real life training to get yourself and others into the safest position possible at any cost. If someone attacks you, they’ve lost all right to be treated fairly and kindly, and they should be punished for such foolery. We don’t go out looking for fights, attacking weaker people.
Please stay with Krav, because it appears that this mentality may help you should anyone try to attack you. Judo and Tai Chi are all well and good, until someone blindsides you or attacks you with something, let’s say, other than Judo or Tai Chi and takes your head off. Don’t be so quick to write it off, and stick with it cuz it’s the best thing you can do to keep yourself and others safe.

[mara-jade]

Re: Domestic Violence

Welcome Yoda,

I have to say what you experienced in your class is NOT the norm. We are taught to have the warrior spirit and fight for your life, but I’ve never had an experience where a student goes ALL out in that manner and an instructor didn’t intervene and set them straight.

Please don’t think the KM you saw in your class as the norm. Being almost 5 years at my center, I can say without a doubt ITS not. Yes, students do need to be more prepared as the techniques do get harder but NO one is out purposely hurt anyone. KM you will get bruised and injuries can happen but the tone of your post concerns me.

On your comment ‘I wouldn’t want to live with a KM trained man.’ I’ve been happily married to my KM partner for 17 years. He encourages me to train cause he knows he can’t be with me 24/7 to protect me.

Please feel free to PM me if you have questions.:wav:

[yoda]

Re: Domestic Violence

>>>I have to say what you experienced in your class is NOT the norm.

>>>Please don’t think the KM you saw in your class as the norm. Being almost 5 years at my center, I can say without a doubt ITS not. Yes, students do need to be more prepared as the techniques do get harder but NO one is out purposely hurt anyone.

What I experienced isn’t unique. The net has a growing number of discussions about this problem in KM.

>>> On your comment ‘I wouldn’t want to live with a KM trained man.’ I’ve been happily married to my KM partner for 17 years. He encourages me to train cause he knows he can’t be with me 24/7 to protect me.

You’re lucky.:)

[yoda]

Re: Domestic Violence

>>>The reality of it is, though, that if someone attacks you in public, they’re not going to go easy while the noobs get used to it, and thats the plain and simple truth of the matter.

That was the reason the instructor gave for not intervening, but I don’t agree.

It loses students for KM. Already a few students have quit and it’s not reaching those who need it – that’s a reality too.

>>> Please stay with Krav

I am sticking with it. It’s a good workout and creative. The doubts creep in after.:)

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