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I was just wondering how realistic the krav maga gun defense moves are, also is it is a good idea to get a toy firearm that fired live ammunition (obviously not deadly or even painful bullets, just for practice) to see if it worked?
Does anyone from LE or anywhere else have any personal experience using these techniques for real life knife and gun defense?
I’d love to hear your stories 🙂
Re: effectiveness of gun defense…
I just attended a tactical gun defense seminar in sst. louis taught by sam sade on saturday. I can tell you that yes these defenses DO work and if done properly they are very debilitaing. The real issue with gun defenses is that they are HIGH RISK!! That said they are of the highest reward, YOUR LIFE. The key point with the gun defenses, as many have said on this board, is once you decide that you must act, you act and go 100% until the threat is neutralized. You cannot afford to let up for one second, because that is all a bg needs to redirect the line of fire and go bang. now you are dead. i guess what i am trying to say is that the defenses do work but you need to recognize when to use them and once you do there is no going back. And the airsoft/ simunitions gun training is a great idea.
good luck with training and i’m sure others will chime in on this
kyleRe: effectiveness of gun defense…
It depends on a lot of factors. Distance of your attacker, intent, etc, are all important points to consider. If you can just surrender the goods he wants and let him leave, that is obviously the best case scenario, but it is not always realistic.
The gun defense is effective, in a case that if you don’t, you could die.
Re: effectiveness of gun defense…
We train occasionally with pellet guns. I think it has advantages and disadvantages: the advantage is that it’s (fun!) and a real eye-opener: it teaches you that you really need to be quick, and that your defend needs to *undetectable*. When executed badly, you will get shot!
The disadvantage is that the training may be slightly unrealistic — since your partner is expecting you to do the defense, he/she is very alert and trigger happy and so you might get shot more often then you would in reality, which is not good for confidence. Having said that, it also makes it clear that the defense can (must?) be supported by a ‘psychological’ attack — talk to the attacher, make him feel in control, etc. and defend when he least expects it (halfway a sentence is a good one).
I’d be interested to hear other people’s opinions on this.
Re: effectiveness of gun defense…
I have demonstrated the front and rear gun defense to a few of my Marines using an electronic toy pistol.
I was able to perform the technique before he was able to squeeze the trigger. It works.
Re: effectiveness of gun defense…
A friend and I played the “what if” game a long time ago using a fully cocked revolver (unloaded of course) that had a shortened trigger pull. And we found that within arms reach at least the guy holding the gun even when expecting a defense couldnt react faster than the “victim” (at least in our little experiment). That seems to me to prove that the most crucial variable to your successful gun defense isnt how fast you are so much as how well you control the weapon after you respond, which if I understand the Krav mentallity of weapon defenses has always been stressed as most important. As a side note I’ve seen a video where a couple guys are confronted at gun point, they attack and with no difficulty are able to negate the intial threat of the fire arm, however they didnt know how to follow through with control and in the course of the struggle one of them got shot. Sorry if i slid a little off the specific topic.
Re: effectiveness of gun defense…
We decided to pressure test the gun from the front defense at a recent Force Training class. Using a simunitions gun, we had about 25 attempts. The gun holder was instructed to shoot as soon as he saw movement from the defender. The defenders only got shot twice. In both cases, it seemed that the gun holder shot before the defense was being attempted.
The bottom line – the gun defenses taught by Krav Maga can and will save your life if you fully commit to them!
Re: effectiveness of gun defense…
As was mentioned earlier illicit a verbal response then initiate the gun defense during their verbalization.Hopefully they can’t speak and shoot a same time.LOL
Re: effectiveness of gun defense…
The best gun defense I’ve ever seen in my life is the one that I currently offer at my site. I have to admit though, I’m new to Krav and don’t yet know how they compare.
Re: effectiveness of gun defense…
First of all, WELCOME…
Secondly, let’s have a “girl 2 girl” about the defenses you are talking about. I have never heard of Tim Larkin, so I was looking for a way to see his gun defenses without paying the $537 to purchase the DVD’s… so I found his website and a link to his gun defenses….
http://www.targetfocustraining.com/multimedia.html
What I can say is that I hope you reconsider after learning some Krav Maga because those gun defenses are some of the scariest one’s I have ever seen. I am sure he means well to give women some self-defense skills. But here is what I see… I am disturbed that the only redirection of the weapon in “the gun to the side of the head” is a head defense, just the head moving, that’s it. Meanwhile his right hand is just hanging there.
There was no control of the weapon until after striking when it is easily controlled prior to the combatives, since only one hand was used to make combatives. Next, the weapon is dropped down- coming dangerously close to putting the defender back into the line of fire and by wrapping your arm around the attackers (that will get you tossed) and (your assuming that after the combatives the arm will be there). Lastly and the part that causes me great concern is that he then rolls to the ground for no appearant reason except to finish the technique. Cardinal rule in street level ground fighting: Don’t go there unless there is no other option.
As a former police officer and defensive tacticts trainer- an officer in their uniform, belt and vest could never and should never do this defense. Your vest is restrictive and everything that was on your belt is now laying all over the ground from that forward roll…
I supppose everyone is different, that is the spice of life however true self defense must work for everyone, regardless of size, strength, speed, fitness level, age… it has to work for all. If your in Las Vegas, Psyops has a Krav Maga school and he is an excellent instructor. PM him and set up some training to check it out.
BTW, great blog!! I like what you do on it and all the awesome pics of warrior women. 🙂
Re: effectiveness of gun defense…
After a few days of practice I have covered all 9 of the gun disarms in HTDYAAA: by Grandmaster Imi Sde-Or himself. I have found that they all work just fine. I practiced this using a realistically weighted airsoft gun (glock19 looking) and safety glasses. I instructed them to fire the small plastic BB as soon as they detected movement from myself. I was never shot. I even have managed to teach my friend all of them as well although he is not as proficient.
I could think of other alternatives but in the end all of my ideas for disarms were still based on the original principles. Deal with the gun, deal with the attacker, take the gun,(run/bang).
Re: effectiveness of gun defense…
after reading down a bit I must say that I watched that Tim Larkin video. I almost cried. That was one of the worst ideas I’ve ever heard of. Paraphrasing: I hold onto the chin so when I do this simple sweep he breaks his own neck.
Oh dead Lord in heaven, hallowed be thy name!!! He was a total idiot!
Re: effectiveness of gun defense…
quote Kirsten:I never like to dis another system but wow…. do not try that at home kids.
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