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In a real life situation, are you more likely to be attacked with a “haymaker” like punch? And if so are you more incline to protect your center line as in inside defense? I personally like to close my center line , I feel more confident in defending against a haymaker type punch ,but if I don’t see it coming then it’s “sleepy time”.
Re: Haymaker / circular punch
You sound fairly new…correct? Haymakers call you before they come over, they knock and wipe their feet before they hit. They are slow punches. There is a defece….duck. You can also ask your instructor about the “punching defence”.
Re: Haymaker / circular punch
Kpalena, actually the point I was making was that I like to close my center line ” chin down left hand further out then the right, elbows close to the body only giving them the outside attack, for a haymaker /circular attack. I raise my left hand bend where the elbow is facing the attacker, my face is covered by my elbow and I step in and actually into the shoulder of the throwing hand, counter with my right elbow..yes? Haymaker can be thrown as a sucker punch?
Re: Haymaker / circular punch
The defense you you initially described seems to be the head defense agains a hook.
In my experience the haymaker is the one that everyone on youtube throws to begin a fight. You know the one that starts with the fist basically behind the back about waist high and does the long loop to the oppositions head.
In this case I see two defenses. First is the simple duck, allow the punch to fly by and recover with a liver punch, kick to the legs or knee or a swift punch to the exposed side of the head.
The second would be the same technique as the stick defense – ie explode toward the attacker with hands in defensive/punch position and then attack with hands, knees and elbows. A friend used the stick technique when a person attacked him as he go out of his car. Did the perfect technique and exploded right into the attackers bladder area with his knee. The attacker peed on himself, fell down and crawled back to his car. I suspect he is recovering from bladder surgery now.
Just some thoughts.
Re: Haymaker / circular punch
If the attack is very visible, you could even beat him to the punch with a quick jab or groin kick, followed by further combatives. Why wait ’til it hits you?
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GiantkillerRe: Haymaker / circular punch
One counter I really like is a modified elbow shield. Against a right haymaker, you cover your right ear with your right hand and use your left to block their forearm with the palm of your hand. When you turn into it correctly their bicep hits into the point of your elbow hard. Its a good one because the punch can’t wrap around your block like some defenses and your elbow shield will also cover against a more straight punch. I also like defending with a straight kick.
Re: Haymaker / circular punch
quote cmetalman:In a real life situation, are you more likely to be attacked with a “haymaker” like punch?I think that in most real life situations you will be faced with mostly drunk people who have very little if any training in martial arts. Most people who practice martial arts are, generally speaking, more relaxed and would be less likely to attack anyone or even to get too drunk.
Because a “haymaker” hook type punch comes more naturally to people (watch children fight, they always used big slamming motions with their arms) then I would believe it is MORE likely for you to be faced with this kind of attack.
When I only started Krav Maga I got into an argument with a friend of a friend… it escalated into this all too familiar situation where we both stand straight facing each other… ready for the other guy to pull the first move. I was to tense that I never saw his hook coming… he hit me on the jaw and got me pretty well… but my teeth were clenched and it only took the pain about two days to disappear. I responded very quickly from passive stance with a left jab that connected very nicely with some part of the guy’s face… I was so pumped that I never felt whether it actually connected or if I missed.
A fraction of a second after our friends pulled us away from each other and it ended there.
My point is that most untrained people do not posses enough skill to use staright punches so you’re more likely to get attacked with big telegraphic motions.
However, it is my honest opinion that if you close your center AND learn to use this sorta 360 defense COMBINED with nice offense… you are easily better prepared for ANY punch…
Good luck… and may you never need to defend against anything.
Re: Haymaker / circular punch
Here’s a great video showing how fights escalate, and showing this clearly untrained skater punk throwing wild haymakers at the security guard, who clearly is a better fighter and executes a perfect judo throw on the dude, who just bounces back off the ground in spectacular fashion!
My only comment is that it’s interesting how it ends up being a boxing match, and neither of them throw a single kick. You’d think that kicks and knees would be effective even in this kind of fast-moving situation. Then again, maybe it was too fast and they were more concerned about keeping their balance…
Re: Haymaker / circular punch
When I was still on patrol and working midnights, one of my favorite things to do was to set up outside of a local bar known for trouble calls (hey, I was going to end up there anyway…) and watch the fun begin. The punch that would always be thrown by one drunk nitwit at another would start from the waist and come up and down in a wide arc – typical haymaker. We’d watch for a minute and then go deal with them. Good times, good times.
Anyone faced with such a threat could easily block with an upper 360 degree block while stepping in with a straight right hand. End o’ story.
The shortest distance between two points remains a straight line.
Re: Haymaker / circular punch
quote CLFMak:One counter I really like is a modified elbow shield. Against a right haymaker, you cover your right ear with your right hand and use your left to block their forearm with the palm of your hand. When you turn into it correctly their bicep hits into the point of your elbow hard. Its a good one because the punch can’t wrap around your block like some defenses and your elbow shield will also cover against a more straight punch. I also like defending with a straight kick.You would cover your right ear with your right hand? So the side that is facing away from the punch? Or did you mean cover your left ear with your left hand? Just making sure…
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GiantkillerRe: Haymaker / circular punch
In JKD it’s called a Cuff—that modified elbow shield. Its effective. On a right haymaker I would most likely advanced into my opponent with an outside block with left while simultaneously striking face with a right straight punch.
Re: Haymaker / circular punch
quote Giant Killer:You would cover your right ear with your right hand? So the side that is facing away from the punch? Or did you mean cover your left ear with your left hand? Just making sure…________________
GiantkillerThe left side one is a different one, more like the Crazy Monkey material. Thats the one I use more often in sparring to block hooks. The right side one is different and works well for a very wide punch such as a haymaker. It damages the arm and flows into different counters, such as backhand motions off the right such as hammerfists, chops, guillotines, or hooking the head to throw knees like the KM knife defense on Fight Quest. I learned this method in kali, and one advantage is that you can control the arm and avoid stabs while damaging the arm, whereas covering with the left side will get you stabbed in the head, arm or neck (the principle, like in KM, is that a defense should work whether or not there is something in the hand). Conversely, the backhand counters it sets up can be very destructive with a weapon of your own- cutting the arm or cutting/stabbing the neck, or hooking around the neck in a reverse grip as you strike with the forearm, leading into neck cutting or knees. However, against someone who knows how to punch and doesn’t have a weapon, the more standard left side cover is much easier to pull off.
Re: Haymaker / circular punch
Hmmm, sounds interesting. I can see how it would hurt the biceps and lead to nice counters. I should try it some time. Will it work against a tight hook as well, or just against a wide haymaker?
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GiantkillerRe: Haymaker / circular punch
quote Giant Killer:Hmmm, sounds interesting. I can see how it would hurt the biceps and lead to nice counters. I should try it some time. Will it work against a tight hook as well, or just against a wide haymaker?_________________
GiantkillerNot so well against a tight hook, since you need to block with two points of contact, but against a tight hook you might pick it off with the hand or the point of the elbow (in which case he might hurt his fist).
The grabbing with elbow shield motion can also be used to the outside against a straight or backhand strike, in order to attack the elbow hinge from the outside with an upward elbow strike.
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