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Hello All
I’m very new to Krav Maga but have been impressed by the system’s effectiveness. Currently my background is in BJJ/Muay thai and am interested in learning something that is more street applicable. As an ER physician, we sometimes deal with very aggressive and intoxicated patients in the ER that require restraint. As such, I figured KM would be very useful in those situations and would like to eventually instruct the staff. Furthermore, I’ve had a few physical confrontations on the street – luckily I just carry mace and that has proven to be KM in a can! 🙂
I admit that seeing CKM on the History channel initially sparked my interest in KM. After reading the posts on here, I’m a little hesitant on participating in CKM. I would like to get experienced KM practitioner’s opinions on a few matters:
1. Despite the claims about Moni, are the techniques themselves effective? I could care less about what his claims are/background if his techniques work. Please, no bashing, this is a question based purely on CKM’s techniques
2. KAPAP – is this system a form of KM and how effective is it?
3. I will be traveling to Israel this summer for 2 weeks – which school should I attend for training while there? Is there a way to become certified at an Israeli school so that I may teach our hospital staff here in the states?
Thank you all for your time
Chris
Re: Hello from a doc in Milwaukee 🙂 – a few questions
Hi Chris,
I’m a student with the IKMF. To answer your questions as best I can:
In my opinion what I’ve seen of CKM’s techniques aren’t as good as those in krav maga on the whole. The specific things I didn’t like the look of were the weapon defences which seemed over complicated and unrealistic, too much emphasis on taking people to the ground and not enough of a principle based approach as opposed to technique based.
As I understand it Kapap is a name for a system that was originally used before KM among certain Israeli groups, however it was discontinued officially and what is taught now is run by a guy called Avi Nardia who whilst not as well known as Moni also has connections to him and a similar history of dubious claims to his name so I would steer clear.
If you’re heading over to Israel then certainly try and take a KM lesson or two whilst there, it’s a big ambition of mine too. As in where to go that’s hard to say but the IKMF and IKMA are two of the most reputable KM organisations and have considerable presence there so check out the sites and drop them an email.
In terms of becoming an instructor this isn’t something you can do in 2 weeks of holiday. You might certainly be able to pick up some useful skills which you can pass on to other staff though but if you want to become a qualified instructor then it will take a lot of time and dedication. I know that you said you didn’t want any CKM bashing but I do have to add that Moni can allegedly train you to teach CKM in 3 days (in return for a hefty fee of course). Before you train with him ask yourself if you think any subject, especially something as complicated as combat, can be mastered in 3 days well enough to teach others it because that is one of the main things that I considered when choosing which school to attend.
Re: Hello from a doc in Milwaukee 🙂 – a few questions
Here’s an example of a technique I don’t like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC2Z-y17qcM
Instead of dealing with the problem – being strangled, the technique is to take the guy to the ground where he suddenly somehow decides tio stop strangling you and you get up. Very dodgy in so many ways.
Re: Hello from a doc in Milwaukee 🙂 – a few questions
Chris,
I agree with most of the response from KIOR. you can’t just go and in three days be prepared to Instruct others in any form of combat. You would have a limited working knowledge of the basics, but to send someone (your student)out on the streets with limited knowledge will do nothing more than complicate their life.IMHO. I too am from another org. different than this forum(IKMA). I do believe that their system(KMWW) is strongly tied to ours in there approach. I have also found that the training they require from their instructors in topnotch. As for the CKM thing, this is not a Krav Maga organisation. They are simply riding the name to attract more people to their site. I was once a CKM instructor (for almost 2 yrs.)so I am not saying things I don’t know about. What we found was that the combatives are lacking, and the weapons defenses are mediocre at best. Also, you can go to a school in Israel and get some awesome training, but to become instructor certified it will be more than a holiday (vacation) will allow. Good luck to you in your search. Before you decide anything, make sure they are a KM school, not just in name. JLRe: Hello from a doc in Milwaukee 🙂 – a few questions
quote ERDoc:Hello AllI’m very new to Krav Maga but have been impressed by the system’s effectiveness. Currently my background is in BJJ/Muay thai and am interested in learning something that is more street applicable. As an ER physician, we sometimes deal with very aggressive and intoxicated patients in the ER that require restraint. As such, I figured KM would be very useful in those situations and would like to eventually instruct the staff. Furthermore, I’ve had a few physical confrontations on the street – luckily I just carry mace and that has proven to be KM in a can! 🙂
I admit that seeing CKM on the History channel initially sparked my interest in KM. After reading the posts on here, I’m a little hesitant on participating in CKM. I would like to get experienced KM practitioner’s opinions on a few matters:
1. Despite the claims about Moni, are the techniques themselves effective? I could care less about what his claims are/background if his techniques work. Please, no bashing, this is a question based purely on CKM’s techniques
2. KAPAP – is this system a form of KM and how effective is it?
3. I will be traveling to Israel this summer for 2 weeks – which school should I attend for training while there? Is there a way to become certified at an Israeli school so that I may teach our hospital staff here in the states?
Thank you all for your time
Chris
Hiya Chris. Just so you know I am by no means a high level KMist but I have noticed Krav Maga very applicable to self protection. I like the stuff.
Now I have not by any means attended any LEO/restraint kind of training but the way I see KM from my perspective, it’s goal of rapidly destroying/disabling the target may not be what you will want to do at work.
I would suggest taking a look at more traditional ju-jutsu or aiki-jutsu/aikido type techniques, being very discriminatory (I don’t know enuf about BJJ to comment), and actually taking the ‘streetworthy’ techniques.
These techniques unfortunately take a lot more time to train and ingrain but … maybe I am doing Krav Maga wrong or something, take much less physical strength to apply imho.
I have barred people high on crack. Yes. They are tougher than people who are not high as you well know, in that they feel pain somewhat less, but mechanically, if you floor them with an arm lock, have their arm restrained and a knee on their prone back/neck, they ain’t getting up I reckon.
Take a look at an aikido/aikijutsu school but mind the flowery techniques. A good instructor should give you the dirt on what’s good and what’s not good.
rz
Re: Hello from a doc in Milwaukee 🙂 – a few questions
If you are looking at aikido look for a instructor who teaches the Tomiki method. this will cut out some of the “flowery” aspect of it.
Re: Hello from a doc in Milwaukee 🙂 – a few questions
quote paul:If you are looking at aikido look for a instructor who teaches the Tomiki method. this will cut out some of the “flowery” aspect of it.Like many arts, imho aikido or possibly any of the other not too dissimilar traditional jujutsu schools, (taught well) would complement Krav Maga quite well. And in your case, OP, given you have the stand up and ground bit covered, jointlocks and restraints are probably a pretty good thing to consider.
I have a belief that aikido/jujutsu can be effective if you put it in perspective with the real world. But you got to find the right people.
My 2 cents: if the guy teaches :
1. proper technique about how to get a lock (in as much as some like to believe in chi or whatsit, basically my take is aikido techniques is biomechanics rule, you get it right, the techniques comes),
2. the ‘dirty’ atemi-waza (strikes), and
3. the dirty stuff that actually get left out in the classical way a technique is taught (this is not commonly known but there is an opportunity to break the arm just shortly after you inititiate a shiho-nage, before you drop him. irimi-nage looks nice smooth and beautiful classically but I think any Krav Magaist will immediately see what nasty things they can add, take the eyes out, take the neck out … etc etc).
4. Foot work/Distancing
5. Gradual building up to full speed practice
6. Feeling your oppponent (you BJJ and Wing Chun guys will know what I mean).
You probably have a good place to train. Be careful though. Not many of such places exist.
Like you, OP, I don’t know much about CKM, I think if the gossip on the net is anyway close to the truth, it has recently been evolving mainly thru input from Moni’s students. So depending on who teaches the CKM near you and what they know it could possibly be really very good or really very bad. Whatever it is, it’s based on Moni’s alleged dishonesty so… there you go.
Good luck
Re: Hello from a doc in Milwaukee 🙂 – a few questions
I agree with Rz1’s statment about Krav not teaching a lot of restraints, if that’s what you’re looking for. It does go against the basic KM philosophy of finishing your opponent and leaving ASAP. So, the civilian curriculum has very little of that.
Maybe your concern is the patient who suddenly becomes unhinged and attacks you or others? Maybe picks up a weapon? I can see Krav Maga being useful in that situation.
I walk with pepper spray also, thankfully haven’t had to use it.
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