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:OhMy: So there I am talking to CJ’s Dad by email. I figure nothings on tV and I’ve been threatening him with a visit for awhile. I figured the threat was more than enough. Didn’t expect him to want me to actually show:dunno: Go figure
About 2 hours before the class I get an email. What equipment do you need, your taking the class:Unsure: Oh Crap. Now I’m like I can’t take a krav class much less anything to do with Fighting. I get winded opening my car door. Plus I start wondering how many krav people at KMSO I’ve pissed off over the years. I’m wondering what are they going to do with the body after. So I beg off.
A few minutes later, I figure WTF. I make sure my will is in order and tell the hot new neighbor girl if i’m not home by such and such time. Call the cops. She just moved in. First time I talked to her. Figured I’d impress her with the mysterious act. She mumbled something about Loco Gringo. I’m pretty sure she digs me:wav:
I’m always early, but when I got there CJ’s Dad had all my equipment laid out. Crap. He expected me to go through with it. I did bring a white towel in case I had to surrender. Sitting around before class I got to meet a lot of forum posters and students. I think that was one of the coolest parts of the whole thing. But I have to admit I was pretty nervous about holding the class back. Well that and surviving. It was awesome to meet you all
I want to point out I met Cav and have a new hero. He’s lost almost 70lbs in 7 months doing krav. Thats so cool it needed a mention
The class in a way is hard to talk about. When your in it its about surviving and trying not to disappoint your partner. I’ve taken a lot of martial art classes, but I think this was the best one I’ve taken. CJ’s Dad pays attention to the level of the class and each student. The class started with a simple principle in shadow box and expanded to application. I not only feel like I understood it, but could apply it to my current skill level or lack of. More importantly I retained it. CJ’s Dad also caught something while I was working the bag as I bowed out of the harder spar due to lack of cup, mouth piece and any kind of stamina. the reason it stuck with me was it addressed my current physical level in case I needed the skill today..not in the future. I found this very astute. He also took the time to put it in terms I understand. I was very impressed
I watch everything and got a great feel for KMSO. Everyone was really friendly and helpful. I’d like to thank the guys in the Thursday night Fight Intro for carrying my fat butt. Hope I didn’t hold you back. I had a blast though it may have been hard to tell from all the wheezing. Thanks CJ’s Dad for making me do it and for protecting me thru it
Couple quick thoughts. I got to see the Spinning Flying axe kick in action. It stunned the opponent and he just stopped. Never go to watch a class Jeremy Stafford teaches. The windows are all fogged up. You can’t see a thing. For those who say Krav is watered down..BS and students work their butts off
I’m really appreciative of the opportunity to train and the great conversation. I really had a great time
mike
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
Mike, it was a pleasure to finally meet you. Don’t be a stranger in the village.
quote unstpabl1:Couple quick thoughts. I got to see the Spinning Flying axe kick in action.Score! The big fella still gots it.
quote unstpabl1:Never go to watch a class Jeremy Stafford teaches. The windows are all fogged up. You can’t see a thing.Man…it gets swampy in there. Here’s Stafford teaching groundwork last night:
Leave it to a marine to bring the Fog of War into the mix.
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
Same Here La Rev. I watched bits and pieces of your 7:45 class. Never been happier to see another class take over the room. :):I really liked the 2 on 1 drills. Looks like an awesome system
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
Thanks, Mike. You would have seen 2 on 1 turn into 5 on 1 if you stuck around. Guns, headlocks, chokes, kicks….I’m actually proud of that melee.
CURSE YOU, TRIPOD!!
Here, again, is my POV, of watching Stafford teach groundwork in SWAMPY-@SS room 1:
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
Great story, Mike. That’s an amazing crew at Sherman Oaks. Can’t wait for you to tell us about your NEXT class…
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
Some thoughts about krav from what I’ve seen and last night . I realize opinions are like Azzholes everyones got one and their usually full of crap, but I’ve tried alot of things. Met a lot of great instructors. I don’t know maybe some lurker or newbie can learn from my mistakes.
I’ve had my share of fights. Hate them. But its 2 in particular that are important to note as to how and why I may be relevant. One was a huge bar fight over a quarter on a pooltable. Pretty much 5 on a whole corner bar. Bad. I was taking kenpo then had an open shot to a guys kidney as he was pounding the crap outta my buddy in full mount GnP. I pulled the punch…twice…never hit him but had great form. I quit the class that night. And anotherin my 30’s that actually started my epic search:rolleyes: Another was a 6-7 on 1 fight I thought I could talk and posture my way out of. In hindsite my only chance was to go USMC on them with Speed, Suprise and Violence of action. I got knocked out and 7 stiches. Great punch from behind. Proboxer. Only thing that saved me from eating boots was it was very public and a woman stood over my body
I started kickboxing while tending bar and smoking 2 packs a dayrofl2 Irealized there that at 35 I was never going to fight in a ring and that the fights that I screwed up in were never 1 on 1. So I started trying other systems. Mant time literally making the same mistake over and over. Trying to make a it work. So i’ve tried many of these systems multiple times only to be disappointed. In a way this is embarassing because some may say he’s a quitter but I know what I was looking for just couldn’t find it. I tried Ninpo 2 times, kenpo maybe 4 times, San Soo a few times,muay Thai, Wing Chun at 3 different gyms, 3 totally different versions of Hapkido, jkd and probably more stuff. Some the schedule didn’t hold for me but the reality is they didn’t address my true concerns. What I learned from my two screw ups.
I’m sure it was frustrating having a conversation with me last night as I was watching everything in the other rooms trying to absorb what krav was about
When i was in class it was about being in survival mode, literally. I’ve never been in a SD class where I felt that way before. I think its important to note. I was in the mode of protcting my health from a conditioning stand point and during drills. i also didn’t want to embarass myself as Sean didn’t exactly let me sneak in unnoticed.
I felt I had to stay engaged because even though it was class everyone threw with intent. Yes even in drills. In a blocking/burst drill Weak blocks were rewarded with a thump or a self thump. That isn’t a norm in martial arts. Last week I was training with a few guys who weren’t even in the room mentally when you worked out with them. Everybody was paying attention here
The 1st drill we did was a sit up into straight punches and then into hooks. My partner kept saying his conditioning sucked. I told ain’t seen sucky till ya see me. . I remember Sean yelling in my ear not to quit and to quit cheating. Though an indomitable spirit is talked about in most systems, I found it was inbedded in every drill we did. Teaching the body or our very core to never freaking quit. This is a true military mentality. However its the most important life skill we can learn. Do this experiment one day and listen to all the whining, blaming, complaining and quiting you and the people around you do. James Loehr says toughness is the difference between a winner and a loser. Toughness is learned. Its mental. Its emotional and in the end its physical. I loved the depth of the training
Sean focused on targeting, but I didn’t get it till later. I was throwing to open targets as if I was in a ring scoring points. The side, the thigh, the inner thigh instead of the knee, the groin etc. Because I was conditioned to “SPAR” my targets were for points. Even though I mentally know better its in the training. He also worked The burst and using the kick to close. He didn’t worry what the kick looked like only that it was thrown with intent and covered space. Setting up the hands. Inoticed because of it I was getting these great openings to spots I haven’t noticed before. Though I haven’t sparred in a looong time
Krav addressed my concerns because it teachs, drills and embodies things other systems just don’t. Reality. It drills you to burst and punch through targets, it focuses on the targets in chaos, it addressess multipes not in a set pattern but under stress, weapons and a ton of stuff I haven’t seen. This is not a watered down version of anything. This is a combat system that teaches to overcome and adapt. its not stuck in the past. Its refined daily through cops and soldiers. But it also allows people of all fitness levels and coordination to utilize what they have “now” to defend if the need arises and to grow with the ststem as they improve on their weaknesses
Politics are inevitable where money is involved. Way of the world. But if you go to a dedicated KMAA school you’ll notice something I did. Its simplicity. Humans like to complicate things. Some systems have professors or masters. ask a question get a 50 minute answer on theory. With this system its about application not ego. Atleast that was my expirience
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
It was good to meet ya in person, Mike. Hopefully you didn’t get too beatup in Sean’s class. Sounds like you did alright.
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
quote nate:It was good to meet ya in person, Mike. Hopefully you didn’t get too beatup in Sean’s class. Sounds like you did alright.Hey Nate:D: Hows your foot? Gotta tell you I was nervous enough about surviving. Didn’t help when you came limping out of a fitness classthumbsup I’m like man if the fit clases are that tough I’m in deep doodoo. Truthfully, I got tired watching that class
I’m okay today. was well taken care of. I think bringing the walker and the oxygen tank helped, but the tubes tickled my nose and made me sneeze alot
Hope your feeling better
mike
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
Thanks for the review of the class sounds great.
Couple of questions;
Since it’s intro to fight, did he cover mostly the basics punching/kicking like Krav combatants?
Was the focus on sparring techniques? Or more street fighting type?
Do they cover situational awareness? I’ve seen in CJ’s Dads posts he says that a lot and also talks a lot about variables. Just wondering if he does scenarios or practical application?
Can you explain more about why “it’s the best class you have ever taken” what made it different from all the other styles I’ve seen you talk about? The material he covered or the way he taught it? I’ve seen you say that a class is only as good as it’s instructor so I’m trying to figure out if its more just because of CJ’s dad’s style as an instructor or because of the curriculum.
Last question, I know you don’t train in Krav but I also know you are familiar with Imi’s principles, did the fight class stress principles based on Krav or was it more MT/KB for the street?
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
quote Benelli:Thanks for the review of the class sounds great.Couple of questions;
Since itís intro to fight, did he cover mostly the basics punching/kicking like Krav combatants?
Was the focus on sparring techniques? Or more street fighting type?
Do they cover situational awareness? Iíve seen in CJís Dads posts he says that a lot and also talks a lot about variables. Just wondering if he does scenarios or practical application?
Can you explain more about why ìitís the best class you have ever takenî what made it different from all the other styles Iíve seen you talk about? The material he covered or the way he taught it? Iíve seen you say that a class is only as good as itís instructor so Iím trying to figure out if its more just because of CJís dadís style as an instructor or because of the curriculum.
Last question, I know you donít train in Krav but I also know you are familiar with Imiís principles, did the fight class stress principles based on Krav or was it more MT/KB for the street?
wowrofl2 Thats alot of questions.
Yes it covered basics, but it had a theme that was built upon. CJ’s Dad had a progression that he was building upon with each evolution to the cumulation of application in sparring. Some may not have noticed the progression, it started very subtly with shifting weight from foot to foot, then to bursting, then to punch and culmunated to applying using the kick to close. At least that was my impression struggling thru. Thats a major reason why I felt the class was so good.
The focus was anti sparring. Totally street orientated. i don’t know if you know CJ’s Dad’s background but he understands the ring game as well and has cornered fighters.. This however was not what was taught. In fact he corrected me a number of times for throwing at a sparring type target and constantly reminded the class of the difference
I’ve talked to CJ’s Dad about Situational awareness. I don’t think it was a focus on what we were trying to accomplish in this particular class. i teach acting. I learned a long time ago to focus the class on a theme and on application. The next class I plan something else. I definitely got the impreession he had an agenda for the session and knew exactly what he wanted to accomplish. You’d have to ask him about how he structures. This also was a Fight Intro so my delusion is that it would be more fundamentally focused. Giving the tools and learning how and when to use them
I think my statement has always been more to its not the system you train it but how you train it. What I’m trying to get accross has been that a lot of systems have lost their focus. They were all created for combat at one time. That is not necessarily true today. Just because it says TKD on the door doesn’t mean its a fluff school. On the same token just because it says krav on the door doesn’t mean the instructor didn’t lose focus to retain students. With my limited exoirience in krav, which was one class before NTC opened, have watch a few L1 classes, bits of L3 classes last night, watched 1 Fight and new expiriencing Fight Intro the ciricullum seems really well grounded
If your asking for a critique of CJ’s Dad’s teaching, I can only base it off my expirience teaching acting and of course all the other types of classes I’ve taking in life. FWIW. He was very aware of the students and limitations. he knew exactly what he wanted to accomplish. He made it fun and yet he pushed you. He wasn’t critical nor abusive. He was very observant and very supportive. He really had a great sense of when to ratchet it up or pull it back. On a side note, I met La Rev, Jeremy, Leejam and the lovely Miriam, all instructors. What struck me was the passion they had for krav. It was cool cause I wasn’t a sales pitch thing. passion is a big requirement for good instruction
I’m not sure I’m qualified to answer the last question. Because to me the difference between krav stand up and MT for the street would be pretty similar at least at the intro level. I mean doesn’t it come down to initially laying down the platform? The “Delivery System” between the 2 is so similar. We’re talking laying the foundation here and it was only one class. I’m not sure how many classes the group was into. I did see some of the diifferences in La Rev’s L3 class with eye gouges, weapons and multiples
Your probably better off asking an instructor as I can only give you an old fat guys beginners perspective. Hope that helps
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
after reading your post on “forums” and they way you were treated by the other “experts” in other martial arts and self defense styles, all i have is one question? when are you going to sign up for krav “full time” and let sean try the jumping flying spinning axe kick to the head on you! (or better yet teach you how to do it!)
russell
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
Thanks for the clarification and sorry if I seemed invasive with my questions. Its just that having originally been in KMWW and then regrettably moving to train with Moni in CKM I have come to see what I consider a flaw in training both systems. (well several in CKM but thatís a different post)
With the recent trend of MMA ìfightî classes were really seeming more Muay Thai style ish not necessarily for the ring but a lot of emphasis was on teaching people how to spar better. Which is fun I admit but not really street confrontation orientated.
It seemed to me that Kav Maga does great at ìaddressing the immediate dangerî from a self defense perspective but NOT from a stand up fight one. Its not like a guy pushís you and you can say back to him ìhey choke me here I know a great defenseî
So schools try and augment their curriculum by adding BJJ for the ground piece and a Muay Thai or Shootfight/MMA for stand up. But neither is really principle driven so its not really Krav Maga stand up fighting.
Iíve looked on the KMSO website and they had listed ìThai Padî class and ìMMA Conditioningî so the logical thought would be their fight program might have fallen into that same trap.
In a street confrontation Iím not sure I want to train to do a double leg takedown and then scramble for position to ground pound.
When I read your initial posts and the subsequent following ones I thought hmm maybe someone gets it?
Thanks again for getting into it a little more.
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
quote russell:after reading your post on “forums” and they way you were treated by the other “experts” in other martial arts and self defense styles, all i have is one question? when are you going to sign up for krav “full time” and let sean try the jumping flying spinning axe kick to the head on you! (or better yet teach you how to do it!)russell
There are some finacial considerations at the moment,the summer hiatus and a possible strike after a 4 month strike earlier in the year. So the answer to the question in as soon as I can:dunno: but it may be a bit
i don’t think I want to train in anything else
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
quote Benelli:Thanks for the clarification and sorry if I seemed invasive with my questions. Its just that having originally been in KMWW and then regrettably moving to train with Moni in CKM I have come to see what I consider a flaw in training both systems. (well several in CKM but thatís a different post)With the recent trend of MMA ìfightî classes were really seeming more Muay Thai style ish not necessarily for the ring but a lot of emphasis was on teaching people how to spar better. Which is fun I admit but not really street confrontation orientated.
It seemed to me that Kav Maga does great at ìaddressing the immediate dangerî from a self defense perspective but NOT from a stand up fight one. Its not like a guy pushís you and you can say back to him ìhey choke me here I know a great defenseî
So schools try and augment their curriculum by adding BJJ for the ground piece and a Muay Thai or Shootfight/MMA for stand up. But neither is really principle driven so its not really Krav Maga stand up fighting.
Iíve looked on the KMSO website and they had listed ìThai Padî class and ìMMA Conditioningî so the logical thought would be their fight program might have fallen into that same trap.
In a street confrontation Iím not sure I want to train to do a double leg takedown and then scramble for position to ground pound.
When I read your initial posts and the subsequent following ones I thought hmm maybe someone gets it?
Thanks again for getting into it a little more.
So are you saying I do get it or I don’trofl2
Part of the thing is that if each of us sees a picture, we see it differently. If we look at 2 different pictures the chasm is muck greater. Its hard to find common ground in our POV’s
The structure of MMA and krav are the same because the delivery system is the same. then we only have x amount of limbs or weapons. The only thing that changes is intent which affects strategy and targeting. Most of the hardcore RBSD trainers use MMA as the structure because it functional and proven. Plus you hasve the advantage of stress testing it. If you can’t do it under stress, you can’t do it.
Yes NTC has Fitness classes. Their hardcore and look to use the structure but the focus is conditioning not fighting. I could change the focus of krav and make it tai Chi if I wanted. Again thats a KMWW question. i’m not qualified. There is a vid of Jarretts bag class around looked tough to me. But thats a seperate thing from krav and Fight
I can definately say that the 2 fight classes I’ve seen, sean’s and Jarrett’s were constantly admonishing that its not sparring. Targeting the groin, knee etc. The L3 La Rev’s guys were doing attacks were to vitals of what I saw. They were doing 2 on 1 attacks, random. So I don’t feel they’ve fallen in that trap
Wasn’t there an episode of TUF where the guy did a double leg . The other guy went to guard and the first guy never went to the ground but kept bouncing his head off the cement. One was streetfighting
I don’t have any answers, but all systems have flaws because their an attempt to organize chaos. Chaos by its very nature can’t be organized. You’d have to explain the principles and flaws as you understand it. If you do it respectfully I’m sure instructors would address it as well as you can on the net
Again I hope that helps
Re: how I ended up in KMSO’s Fight intro
Now it seems it’s my turn to clarify
First, I was stating that based on your comments I am led to believe that the instructor gets it. The class focus is on taking the fight to your attacker and doing as much damage as possible. Rather then sitting back in a defensive posture waiting to be attacked
I was also attempting to draw a picture that in my experience that part of the curriculum had been absent in the schools I had been at. The ground fighting was no gee BJJ and the stand up more “sport” orientated and less combat.
So to summarize and reiterate my point it does seem like the fight program at KMSO is designed to teach students how to handle a confrontation where both party’s are aware they are in a fight about to do mutual combat.
To quote CJ’s dad, “Train Hard, Go Home Safe”
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