Imi doing Krav Maga – observations

[giant-killer]

In the video section, someone posted this link of Imi doing some KM techniques:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WNEJDOBKGm0

Here are a few things I’ve noticed:

For gun from the back touching, he seems to spin, then grab the attacker’s elbow (as opposed to trap his wrist, the way we are usually doing it). He also punches instead of elbows, probably because the attacker is taller (shows it’s okay for me to punch to a larger attacker).

For gun from the front, he seems to push the gun straight down, not having it touch the attacker’s body at all.

For overhead knife, he seems to block first, then punch, probably because he is standing at a bit of an angle to the attacker? It also looks like maybe he is blocking more with his upper forearm than his wrist?

Just a few things I saw. That footage is pretty good, one would think there should also be more of it. Maybe, if all KM organizations got together and started searching, one would find enough footage of Imi to release a special video. I’m sure a lot of students would like to get it.

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Giantkiller

[giant-killer]

Re: Imi doing Krav Maga – observations

For oriental stab, he also seems to block and move offline first, before giving the counter (at least that’s what it looks like in the slow motion).

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Giantkiller

[shooter]

Re: Imi doing Krav Maga – observations

I can only speak from IKMF views, but we teach the gun techniques from that back with controlling the elbow and not the wrist like you guys do it. I feel it provides better controll.

In the oriental stab, we also have this technique. I could not find it in the “Complete Krav Maga” book so I`m not shure you have it in KMWW. Basically it is a technique for when you have a fraction more of time, so you can move out of the line of attack and go to the deadside. This provides you with a bit more safety then staying in the regular 360 position. But as stated it needs a bit more time and observation.

[cmetalman]

Re: Imi doing Krav Maga – observations

shooter, reference to gun from the back,when you say you control the gun at their elbow,do you mean at the tricep or between the elbow and forearm? I was taught as you turn, your hand comes up and you trap their wrist between your bicep to your wrist,that way you have more control of the gun. I’d attack with an elbow and then hammerfist while keeping their arm strecthed out,maybe a groin kick (just to show him I care) soften him up and then do the take away

[kevin-mack]

Re: Imi doing Krav Maga – observations

we also dont know the context of the videos.Was he showing someone the wrong way to do it? The right way? An older way?
Maybe he did the technique perfectly or maybe he messed up a little. Imi never put out a video instructional so we have no idea what this video is really trying to show…without audio or context we shouldnt look at the footage as anything more than just a curious peice of history.
I have heard incredible stories from my instructor about Imi’s abilities as a teacher,fighter and gentleman but I wouldnt base my training or techniques on this video.
I would love to see some footage of Eli Avikzar as well since I heard he had some sick skills. The beauty of the older KM guys is in the way they move.Fast, aggressive and elegant.

[shooter]

Re: Imi doing Krav Maga – observations

quote cmetalman:

shooter, reference to gun from the back,when you say you control the gun at their elbow,do you mean at the tricep or between the elbow and forearm? I was taught as you turn, your hand comes up and you trap their wrist between your bicep to your wrist,that way you have more control of the gun. I’d attack with an elbow and then hammerfist while keeping their arm strecthed out,maybe a groin kick (just to show him I care) soften him up and then do the take away

Yes, I know you guys learn it that way, this is one of the differences between IKMF and KMW.

Our forearm is covering his elbow, with the area closer to my elbow being on his forearm, and my fingers being up on his upperarm. This help extend his elbow and control any bending of the arm. Of course that is probably what KMW will say that their technique does also.

I belive the KMW changed this a few year ago, and it did create som debate.

In my book the KMW technique gives less control over the arm, but makes it easier to do the disarm afterwards.

So yes Imi was showing the armposition the way he was teaching it in the video.

[giant-killer]

Re: Imi doing Krav Maga – observations

I’ve never been shown the IKMF technique by an instructor, so I’m not sure exactly how it works, but it appears as if you are not stepping in quite as deep as we do? It looks more like a quick spin, then immediate control and counter. Do you usually give an elbow for this technique or just a punch? Once you control the forearm, can the attacker move his hand and thus the gun, possibly turning it toward your head? What if he pulls the gun back as you turn, will you still be able to catch the elbow and control?

Actually, there are pictures of Imi in his book that may have been taken at around the same time as the video. Looks like a similar setting, similar clothing and hairstyle (Eyal looks skinny!) It does appear as though Imi is teaching or demonstrating, although you are right one can’t know the exact context, but it’s still pretty interesting to see the founder of the system perform these techniques.

Who posted that video on youtube? Anyone we know? I’m wondering if they might have more info on the video or know when it was taken and under what circumstances.

As for the knife technique, we do that one, too, it basically depends on your stance at the time of attack and on what angle the knife is coming toward you. If it’s coming straight up the middle, you might go to the outside, if it comes at a bit of an angle, you may move to the inside.

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Giantkiller

[shooter]

Re: Imi doing Krav Maga – observations

We step to about the line of the attackers foot. And give an elbow yes. There is a theoretical chance that he can move the hand a bit more, but not turn the gun all the way towards you. His forarm is pretty muched pinned to your body so only the wrist would be moving. And you are still attacking with elbows and knees untill the disarm.

Actually since we are aiming towards the elbow insted of forarm it will be safer if he pulls the gun. More “safearea” before the gun will be in line with your arm. It could be that we miss and hit the forearm instead, but at least the you have cought something. When we turn we aim preatty close to the body, and the shoulder is the least moveable part of the arm, so the nearer the shoulder the less “unexpected” movement will play a factor. Don`t know if I make my self understood here. English obviously isn`t my first language.

IKMF instructors get a “instructors dvd”, and in the end is a lot of material with Imi and Eyal training, interviews, and pictures. Very nice. I am not shure if we can be allowed to distibute that, but it would be nice with a “imi-dvd”.

[giant-killer]

Re: Imi doing Krav Maga – observations

Interviews with Imi, too? And seeing him train? I’m sure there’s got to be more than just those few youtube things. Videorecorders have been around for quite some time and I’m sure people would have videotaped seminars he was giving, maybe during the eighties or even seventies.

Maybe they will release an Imi DVD one day, get everyone together to contribute whatever videos they’ve got. Maybe of Eli Avikzar as well. “Grand Masters of KM” or something. I’m sure a lot of people would be interested in buying something like that.

As for the gun technique, I’ll just have to wait to see if I’ll get a chance to have an instructor show it to me, so I can gain a better understanding. The way we do it, we DO burst in deep and we initially reach forward with the arm, toward his shoulder, in case he is pulling his own arm back. Then we catch the arm somewhere near his lower triceps/biceps, maybe forearm (if he pulls back) and slide back to the wrist as we elbow. So it’s pretty safe and the attacker can’t move the gun one you’ve got him “cuffed”.

The only problem I sometimes encounter is if I do it against a guy with very long arms (I’m 5’1”, so if I go against a guy half a foot or more taller than me). I have to make sure I don’t accidently turn away from the opponent while attempting the takeaway. But it’s possible to kind of roll your shoulder forward (the one that’s trapping the attacker’s hand), which also creates pressure on his wrist and brings your upper body back forward, toward him.

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Giantkiller

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