Intense

[noles05]

Just took my first KM class last night. Wow, pretty intense! Right now, it is a toss up for me between Krav and Gracie Jiu Jitsu (each is offered at a different location). The Krav class light night was intense and I enjoyed it. I watched a couple of BJJ classes the other night to see if it was for me. The instructor is awesome and has a very impressive resume, being one of the few black belts under Royce Gracie. I know that one class does not make the whole program, but BJJ seemed to focus a lot on the ground game. Does BJJ focus at all on punching, kicking, kneeeing, etc., or is it all about the ground fight? Next question is does Krav get into choke holds and locks, etc.? I’d like to have both, but don’t know if my body can take both classes at once.

Anyway, good stuff!

[wim]

Can you take a BJJ intro class to see if you like it? That’d be a good place to start. BJJ does focus a lot on the ground. I’d say that a lot of BJJ schools don’t really do much punching, kicking or anything else. However, that seems to be changing as UFC/vale tudo interest increases. It really depends on the school, so you’d have to talk to the instructor. Krav does get into choke holds and locks, etc. There is groundwork in Krav, although it’s philosophy is that you need to stay on your feet during a fight (rightly so, in my opinion), so obviously the focus is on standup. You should also check to see if the Krav class offers extra groundwork classes, which many do. My school does, along with a sparring class — honestly those are two major reasons why I joined my school.

The two arts are sort of at opposite ends of the specturm, with some amount of overlap. They compliment each other well, so taking both is definitely great if possible.

I have a lot of respect for BJJ. It definitely is effective, mostly because it takes 99% of people out of their element, into a zone that they’re not at all familiar with (the ground). However, I take Krav for a reason — because I feel that, in the real world, it’s more effective and safer to use (I’m not falling all over the concrete trying to take you down). I also think that you really have to know both standup and ground in order to be a really good fighter. I don’t think that Krav alone (without extra groundwork classes) or BJJ alone (without extra standup classes) will make you a really good fighter. Also, BJJ can, at some schools, be a little too sport oriented, which is fine if that’s what you want. But, if you’re looking for self-defense, that may be a problem. That said, Krav can, at some schools, be a little too conditioning oriented, which is fine if that’s what you want too.

[noles05]

Intense

Thanks for the quick reply. It doesn’t seem like the Krav class at the particular school I went to focuses too much on conditioning (although I was sucking wind at the end of class yesterday). I also watched a level II class and these guys beat the snot out of each other and were pretty much sucking wind too at the end of the class. I will talk to the school where the Krav is being taught and see if they have an extra ground class. If not, I am tempted to take Krav at one location and the BJJ at the other.

I read some stuff on the forums with some people talking about belt colors, etc. The school where I will be taking Krav has a four level system (no belts involved). I also read somewhere on these forums about a level 5. The school tells me it has four levels and level four is pretty much if you want to be an instructor. Are there diffferent level systems out there or am I about to get hosed on a level?

[johnwhitman]

We do have a belt system, but we don’t ever wear belts, and the belts correspond exactly to the levels (level 1 = yellow belt etc.).

You’re not being \”hosed\” on the levels. : )

There are Level 5 classes at the National Training Center, where there are a number of high level instructors who are certified to teach that material. Most of our instructors around the country are not yet certified to teach this material, so you don’t see that many Level 5 classes offered yet (Level 5 being brown and black belt). That will change slowly as more and more of our people get qualified. Remember, the KM system itself is pretty young, and our efforts to spread it nationwide are only about 6 years old.

As a side note, I have to say that I always feel reluctant to talk about \”levels\” and people being not \”qualified\” to teach certain things. It makes the system sound mysterious and secretive. It’s not. You’ll see the same common sense approach at the higher levels, and the movements there will be based on the same movements as earlier levels. That’s what makes KM such an integrated system.

[noles05]

Intense

Thanks for the info. I know that I am thinking far down the road, but I am looking to see the course all the way through and would hate to get to a certain level and not be able to go any farther because my instructor couldn’t teach it. And that is what it sounds like when I hear it is a 5 level system, and I will only get 3 levels at this location. \”But we might be able to do level 4 at our other location\”. Okay, so we have a 5 level system, of which I am guarranteed to get 3 levels. Looking at it belt wise, one would leave with a green belt. See what I mean?

[anonymous]

Hey Noles,

I kind of see what you mean, but I guess the problem is that a lot of the instructors outside of Los Angeles just haven’t been studying Krav Maga for a very long time yet and so it makes sense that they wouldn’t yet be allowed to teach level four or five. I don’t think it makes us sound \”mysterious\” to talk about qualifications – it’s just common sense. As a student, I don’t think you would want to have someone teach you things that he is still learning himself – it probably wouldn’t make for very good training. And especially once you get to the highest levels you would want an instructor with as much experience as possible.

You sound very committed and so it’s not a very good situation, but I’d say start training at your school. Maybe by the time you reach level four they have someone, who is allowed to teach it. If not, there may be seminars in your area, or maybe you get around to visit the NTC? In any case, some Krav Maga is better than nothing.

With regards to the BJJ, I’d definitly recommend it. You could also ask if they have a no gi class at that school. That might be more realistic for the street. Or you could check if there is a MMA school in your area, there they teach stand up but also ground fighting and the ground fighting includes striking, kneeing etc (also takedowns).

[jason-koepke]

I agree with what others have said. You should be well rounded and learn stand up and ground techniques. You can never have enough info. Never stop learning. Take what you can (and need) from ALL styles and leave the rest. I am obviously biased towards Krav. I think it the most well rounded system out there but, I am always interested in learning what I can from whatever system there is out there. It never hurts to know too much.

Jason

[emil]

Hey Noles, don’t fret. If you like Krav go ahead and sign up. It takes most people a few years to reach higher levels, so by that time your school will probably be certified to teach it.

Also, GK, I am curious to hear your thoughts on gi vs no-gi as it applies to self defense. Seeing as GI is a type of clothing, doesn’t that make it closer to street conditions? It’s certainly as bulky as a jacket or a sweater, it gets very hot and uncomfortable and one can use it effectively to control opponents.Unfortunately I no longer live in LA so fighting on the beach for me is …infrequent :).Just wanted to know your thoughts on this.

[anonymous]

Hey Emil!

I live in sunny California, so the question of jackets doesn’t usually come up very often!! 😆 Except maybe on days like today, where that weird liquid stuff keeps dropping out of the sky and the local newscasters are going crazy covering the big \”storm\”…

I have to say I usually train without the gi. You are right, the gi is very bulky and is thus very useful when grappling. It’s often easier to get someone in a submission move, because you have something strong to hold on to, as opposed to just a shirt or nothing at all (if the guy is sweaty and has no shirt it’s very hard to control his limbs!). There are also certain moves that can only be done if you or your opponent are wearing a gi. So, in other words, if you always train with it you might end up relying on it too much and then in a street fight your opponent won’t be wearing a gi and that might throw you off a little.

I guess a jacket might be comparable, depending on how hard it is. But then a gi also has a belt on the outside of the \”jacket\”, which a regular jacket might not have (you might use the belt to lift your opponent or the like in Jiu Jitsu class). The gi is not too bulky, it just has a very strong fabric, so it’s a very distinct piece of clothing, not really comparable to anything else.

I think taking Jiu Jitsu classes is good either way, but I think it helps to train without the gi at least once in a while to get a feeling of what that’s like, since your real life opponent won’t be wearing one.

[Author]

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