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Apologies if this topic has been covered before:
I’ve been training in Krav close to two years and enjoy it immensely. Although, from time to time while practicing various defenses, I question the effectiveness of the techniques in the event that my partner decides to forcefully resist me rather than reluctantly flow with my motions. I understand that quick, initial strikes may incapacitate an opponent effectively enough so that a given counter may be thoroughly executed, but in a street fight where adrenaline and possibly substances are involved, I’m not convinced it’s a safe enough bet.
I think a partner that executes quick, strong, brutal evasive movements or perhaps relentless, “unexpected” and unrehearsed strikes or takedown attempts would be closer to “keeping it real”, as on the street, opponents will likely use any and all strength and resolve to resist your counter. Danger seems more imminent when all bets are off, but I don’t think a lot of Krav training mimics this reality.
If this is a feasible point, should the training be more intense to the effect where your opponent should intentionally resist and make an effort to trip up your attempts at a counter rather than appease your movements with moderate resistance? Specifically during knife defenses, I would imagine a real attacker would do a hell of a lot more damage than a training partner under a controlled scenario might appear to inflict. Should realistic resistance be incorporated to enhance the effectiveness of the defense?
I think benefits of this sort of training might enable the “victim” to think on his/her feet while adapting to an unforeseen threat via improv tactics. It might also serve to eliminate panic and distress when an initial technique is botched for any number of circumstances.
Granted, safety and courtesy during training are paramount, but should training be more closely geared towards no-holds-barred encounters? Do some schools adopt this philosophy either in general or between specific partners? Just curious how others feel about this.
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
keep training and chime back in on this in about 6 months to a year
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
This subject about the training not being real enough comes up once in a while… here’s my opinion on this.
The main problem I see is.. WHAT IS REAL? How do you know what the reaction of a person will be during an attack or counter attack? If you line up 10 random people and you tell them to attack you, and you fight back, not every one of them are going to fight you back. I bet some of them will ball up and drop to the floor or run. Now, should you train for the scenario where the attacker will fight back? of course.
So if we are training for the person that will fight back, how do we make this “REAL”? What is “realistic resistance?” You can tell your partner to act “real” and resist the defense and the counter attack… but how can your partner really take into effect that I’ve just punched him as hard as i can to his face and that I’m kicking/kneeing him as hard as i can? How does he make his reaction real? He can’t unless i really do those thing to him.
Also when your partner is intentionally trying to resist and trip up your defense, that is NOT real since he/she knows what is about to happen and they are acting against what your about to do. THAT IS NOT REAL. When someone attacks you, they don’t know what your going to do as much as you don’t know what they are going to do. They certainly can’t know their body/mental reaction when they get their boyz down there smashed in by my knee or shin.
You also can’t account for all senarios like if the guy is on some kind of drug like PCP. If thats the case, I would be using eye gauges or some other more lethal techniques but I’m sure your partner would not appreciate that during training.My point is that you should always train aggressively and hard as you can but, don’t worry so much about am I training as real as i can. Unless you guys want to really hit each other.. there no other way of making it “REAL”. You just have to trust that what your learning will come out instinctively and that you’ve learn and have enough tools in your tool box to be able to defend and attack dynamically as the fight happens. If you do want to really hit each other..good luck. I always say, I train so that I can be well enough to use it out in the street. If i get hurt during training… I can’t use it when i really need to.
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
I’ve been in a couple of drills where attacks were unscripted and defenses where left up to the defender. These felt very real. I’d like to see some drills like the end of that Human Weapon episode, where multiple attackers geared up and hit you with anything from chokes to weapons. I think these days multiple attackers is a more likely scenario. Having four or five people with full gear on coming at you at once with “untrained” attacks will really test our skill. It will also give us more confidence in what we’re learning.
*I appologize for any typos. Posting on my phone.
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
In a real fight you probably will get hit,hurt, cut, maybe even stabbed. It is just a matter of how many times you will get hit, stabbed or cut(and sometimes if you will survive).
That’s why the best defence is always to try and just walk away, but if it goes the wrong way at least you’ll have a fighting chance te get away reletively unharmed. Also I believe , most agressors pick out the easyest prey and will back off if you meet them with equal agressiveness and fighting skills.
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
In the early stages of learning a technique,I think that it would be wrong to resist a move to the point that your partner rarely gets to complete all the self-defense steps.
If he never gets to do it,he’ll never learn it.Only after both of you have gotten the technique down,should increasing resistance be undertaken.IMO.
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
I agree that a technique should first be learned and then the partner should put more resistance into it. It’s true that you will never get a realistic scenario during training, because your partner knows that a defense is coming, which is not the case in a real confrontation. I have watched and studied many real fights online for exactly that reason. How do people react? What do they do? I have come to the conclusion that a well executed defense including counterattack will be effective in most cases. Of course there are many factors that can change the game, but on a whole it should work. That’s why it’s important to be quick and aggressive. Break that nose, hit those eyes or balls. That will be enough to distract the attacker. Keep in mind that most aggressors don’t expect you to fight back, therefore their guard will be down. Remember – it’s either you or him, so don’t hold back.
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
Here is a drill I had my lvl 3 class do a few months back.. 1 person was in the “middle” and the rest of us walked out of the room. We picked 1 “bad” guy to be the attacker while the rest of us just walked around. We came back in the room and all walked around bumping into the person in the middle.. When the bad guy wanted to, he sucker punched the guy in the middle then they reacted with counters. My goal was for the targeted person to take the first blast then go, go, go, go. This has been probably the most “realistic” drill I’ve put my students through.
Then of course, they wanted me to be in the guy in the middle at the end and they all jumped me at once. good times.
disclaimer —- head gear and gloves were used; No level 3 students were harmed during this drill.. much. hahahahah
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
quote JohnL:Here is a drill I had my lvl 3 class do a few months back.. 1 person was in the “middle” and the rest of us walked out of the room. We picked 1 “bad” guy to be the attacker while the rest of us just walked around. We came back in the room and all walked around bumping into the person in the middle.. When the bad guy wanted to, he sucker punched the guy in the middle then they reacted with counters. My goal was for the targeted person to take the first blast then go, go, go, go. This has been probably the most “realistic” drill I’ve put my students through.Then of course, they wanted me to be in the guy in the middle at the end and they all jumped me at once. good times.
disclaimer —- head gear and gloves were used; No level 3 students were harmed during this drill.. much. hahahahah
Man that sounds like fun.
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
With the advent of CCTV, there is a vast source of ‘live’ material which will give anyone interested in the subject of self-protection a good grounding in what the threat actually looks like and how it manifests (assuming you haven’t had the misfortune of experiencing a savage assault yourself). Any thoughtful training programme will pay close attention to the psycho-physical components which make up street violence. The role of compliance and non-compliance have equal validity in training. They form the two ends of a spectrum which students can move along when focusing on a range of combat strategies and situations. Where I differ from some is that I do not believe that the sport MMA model is the answer (effectively ‘duelling’) for achieving realism. In my opinion, sports MMA duelling contains too much reciprocity and mutual respect which would not be present in a 15 second real street attack (there are, of course, loads of other distinctions such as absence of weapons, multiple assailants, referees, rules etc.) However, lots of MMA style drills are very useful and some can be done with zero compliance. Its worth bearing in mind that increasingly there is good protective gear on the market such as Blauer Tactical which afford great mobility and will allow a broader range of stress testing and scenario training.
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
Speaking from experience working in a maximum security state prison. Training is key. First thing is having faith in what you are training in. Doing things over and over again creates muscle memory and you will be suprised in your preformance if you train properly. I have been in lots of sparring sessions which is excellent experience to have and unfortunately have been in real hand to hand combat. Once you get that experience everything will be in slow motion.
-Never doubt yourself or what you are training in
-Train hard fight smart
-If you dont feel safe doing certain things dont do them
-Spar as much as possible with people with experience
-when training ask questions/if things dont feel right you might be doing them wrongI have been training for 20yrs boxing,thai boxing,free style fighting,wrestling and some judo – presently doing Krav Maga for the last 6-7 months (currently a Level 2) its legit/affective and it works its a mixture of different martial arts boxing, muay thai etc etc…
Have faith in what you do/when you doubt you already lost…
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
To the OP: I had similar worries. The solution is simple: practice slow at first to learn the technique, then simply ask your partner to go as hard or as easy as you feel he/she should. I now regularly prompt my partner to go 100% if I feel confident with a technique. That’s what insurance is for methinks 🙂
PS: the opposite is also true. I’m rather uncomfortable with partners that hit at 100% immediately. I just tell them to please take it easy, we can go hard later. If it doesn’t work out, I just change partners. No big deal.
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
Adding on to the post above. I usually train with the same group of partners. We’ve developed a mutual understanding that we’re going to make it as real as possible. They also correct my mistakes and push me to fight harder. It’s been a big help during my training.
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
quote SamJ:With the advent of CCTV, there is a vast source of ‘live’ material which will give anyone interested in the subject of self-protection a good grounding in what the threat actually looks like and how it manifests (assuming you haven’t had the misfortune of experiencing a savage assault yourself).I (as many of you do as well) like doing youtube searches for gang fights that have been caught on tape. Here’s one that shows how a simple one on one fist fight can escalate if the attacker is not dealt with quickly and effectively.
Re: Is Krav Training Effective?…Enough?
quote MadDogMean:I (as many of you do as well) like doing youtube searches for gang fights that have been caught on tape. Here’s one that shows how a simple one on one fist fight can escalate if the attacker is not dealt with quickly and effectively.Thanks for posting the vid. What’s interesting is that this looks like a solicited streetfight rather than an encroachment or ambush self-defence scenario. For the most part, the dynamics and tempo resemble an NHB fistfight (albeit a not very skilled version) with some sort of honour code in place e.g. resepectful distances, pulling back, limited grappling etc…Of course, with one side not happy with the result, it escalates into something which strays away from a gangland ‘settler’.
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