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Question Serrada (no Monday morning quarterbacking intended),
In Krav we do a lot of work on groin kicks as a method to put an aggressor down. As you have evaluated your response did you ever think that a groin kick might have worked better or been more effective than the punch?
Would be good to hear from someone who has been in a \”real\” fight.
Thanks.
PS: I am surprised the cops did not wait around until you or the goons had left the scene to prevent exactly what happend to you with the second attack…
I guess my instinct was to address the immediate threat(s)…the left hand that pushed me and the impending right hook…we were very close too…not much room to kick…i was more in trapping/knee/elbow range…I probably should have used elbows or knees, but I was trying to create distance. I also didnít want to go to the ground, partially why I was trying to create space. I also didn’t want to be viewed as the aggressor in case the cops came. I was more counter striking than anything else. Maybe not the best Krav strategy, but I was out there by myself and I didn’t want to get tied up with him in case people were going to try to help him, I wanted to be able to move.
Thanks for the explaination. You used what was in your toolbax and went with your instincts… and survived. About all anyone can ask.
Thanks again.
Well sounds like things went as well as they could have after the fight began, however was it worth getting out of the cab and confronting the guy over? Considering all of the things that could have happened, wouldnt it have simply been better to wait it out in the cab, or just call the police? It was an unnecesarry confrontation, many of which dont end up so well. For example the attackers buddy that blind sided you, could have been armed with a knife, bat, or something else and taken you out, and then they both would have proceeded to stomp you into the ground. Im glad things werent worse, but people need to choose their fights/confrontations carefully.
Those kubatons (which have received the unshakable name of the ninja keychain) seem like one of the most frightfully effective self defense weapons available. I object to them because they force you to either puncture another person or not use it. There are lots of keychain type things that have a greater force spectrum, but most of them can still be used to seriously incapacitate if necessary. I like the comtech stinger, and that travel wrench seems pretty good too. There’s also kubatons, romatrons (these are weird and I’ve never used one, but kind of interesting), koppo sticks, flashlights, and there’s this type of kubaton I’ve seen that has a plastic protrusion between the index and middle fingers so you can punch with it. Any of these can be devastating against the eye or the windpipe, but can also be used in less serious situations, unlike that ninja keychain.
Consurvativ, I understand what your saying, however, hindsight is 20/20. One should always assume a situation might turn into an attack, that said, he had no reason that going up to someone and politely asking them to do what he did would incite that fight.
20/20 hindsight….. I would be a be worth billions if I had it, own my own Hooters and control Walmart and Microsoft…..
Glad it worked out the way it did. While I try and avoid fights, (its been 2o some years) I do not think we should live under a coffee table either hiding from everything and everyone. A 911 operator would have laughed at you had you called them to tell them someone was blocking the street. (You might have been able to sue them though and got the recording on Fox news….) Perhaps, just PERHAPS, these guys will think twice before bullying the next person. <Cough> Well, I can wish, right?????
Good on ya
JC
Itís true, the fight theoretically could have been avoided. In hindsight, it probably would have been better to stay in the cab. However, I don’t feel I was wrong in asking someone to move their car. I’m sure everyone at some point has asked someone to move their car, person, shopping cart, whatever to allow them to pass. Merely asking someone to move is not an invitation to strike you. I suppose that yielding to any and all situations would be safer, I suppose that I could have avoided going out at all that night. I probably should move to the country and not live in an urban area to avoid this type of thing.
However, I don’t think I will… What I will do, is maybe analyze what happened. Maybe next time I won’t get out of the cab… I will, as a martial artist, review and think about what got me out of this situation in one piece despite being attacked by 2 people, weapons, in confined and less than optimal conditions and how I used my environment to help me. How all the years of training paid off in a real situation? Life happens, things happen. What we do with them and how we handle them is what matters. For the most part, there isn’t a lot I would change about the way it worked out.
I was speaking to a friend of mine who is a former bodyguard/friend and my Serrada teacher who has seen a lot of action. I have also spoken with some other martial artists that I very much respect. All of them made the same point.
Again, I made it out of the situation in one piece. I escaped the situation when the opportunity arose. I didn’t injure a person beyond what the situation required for me to get away and seek safety for myself and my girlfriend. So, what I did worked. The results were exactly as I wanted them to be…to not get hurt.
So to all those that have commended/supported me…thank you! To all those that criticize me…thank you as well. This has been a learning experience. I will try to learn from it and make my self a better martial artist and person.
I want to also mention and thank my girlfriend. She has been great. She has been very supportive and has helped me deal with all of the crazy emotions, paranoia and analysis of dealing with this situation. Thanks \”T\”!
Brian
I agree, you can’t spend your life tiptoeing around. Sitting in line in the taxi was costing you money and there wasn’t anything wrong with trying to solve the problem. Sounds like you were trying to be perfectly reasonable, the two guys were obviously more than ready to fight, and you used the training you had to take care of the situation. Good for you.
Support
Count me as one that supports you in your decision. I being someone who lives in the city, read this as a common occurance to ask someone to move, so that you can continue on your way. Anyone who says you should just sit in the cab and wait appears to me that either a) they have never lived outside rural suburbia or b)is clearly a follower and not a leader in life. I can put myself in this exact position since I am the type that would also get out and see what the holdup was especially since cabs cost an arm and leg here. I also plan on carrying a ‘tool’ of somesort now in the future because it can make a world of difference. Thank you for sharing your experience with us and I wish I was there to give you a hand, although you seem to be able to take care of things youself.
I have already posted but I would like to say one more thing. I applaud and support your decision to not bow down to the majority of people who say \”you should have stayed in your taxi\” and \”this was a completely avoidable situation\”.
My opinion, even though some of you may think I am wrong, is if you allow someone to step all over you once, they will do it again. What would have happened if someone without your kind of training had asked these two guys to move. Do you think they would have been able to get away with it? Too many people want to AVOID situations instead of standing up for themselves. Those who said they would have avoided the situation are the same people who would have watched the defenseless man get beat to hell by two men and said \”boy, I sure am glad that aint me\”
KravRon said
\”Those who said they would have avoided the situation are the same people who would have watched the defenseless man get beat to hell by two men and said \”boy, I sure am glad that aint me\”.\”
Thats a nice smear Ron, i didnt know that you were omniscient and know exactly how all those against the decision would have reacted but thanks for enlightening us by telling us what we would have done.
As if the only \”manly\” thing to do about being held up in a cab is to get out and confront someone. Some people dont think being in a held up cab is the end of the world. Some people can tolerate miner annoyances and some people dont feel like having a confrontation over something so trivial and risk an incident like the one which occured. To say because i wouldnt have done the same thing, means i would stand by as someone was being beaten up is simply a child like unfounded insult.
To assume that if you dont stand up to this person then it would have inevitably been up to someone else is also unfounded. It’s entirely possible these 2 individuals were in a state of mind they arent normally in throughout any other given day. Perhaps they were intoxicated and were abnormally irritated by some unknown circumstances and were content with causing a little trouble and then going home for the night, but instead they were challenged which set them off and ended up with a situation that didnt need to occur. Is it your fault that confronting them caused them to fight you? NO BUT if you can act in a manner to deter and not provoke incidents that are forseeable then a reasonable and self controlled person wouldnt mind going the extra step to do so.
Its not as if these 2 guys were robbing some old lady, or threatening harm to someone which would make someone a coward for letting it go. They were simply causing some inconvenience to others, and if you are willing to fight over every little inconvenience you face then youll end up dead, or in jail more than likely.
It is not a smear. It is human nature. History has proven that people unwilling to stand up for themselves will allow others to walk all over them. The Israelis learned this lesson the hard way. The really hard way. They put up with the minor annoyance of being marked by the Nazi regime. When no one stood up and said \”Hey this is wrong\” it got worse. This is what has led to the Israeli attitude of counter-attack and counter-attack so hard that your opponent doesnt or cant come at you again. Correct me if I am wrong but Krav teaches a very similar mentality.
As far as someone else approaching these individuals odds are if the traffic continued to block up, as it did, someone would have made a comment. They may not have approached the vehicle but, as you argue these thugs may have been in a different state of mind, it may have set them off all the same. Personally I have been in an alterted state of mind many times and have always managed not to get out of my vehicle and attempt to hurt someone. Most people will tell you that being drunk wont stop you from doing something you normally would do anyway…it just makes it easier for you to do.
The fact of the matter is whether or not you think it could have been handled differently is a moot point. The situation occurred, the author reacted, he was providing a point by point lessons learned for his fellow students to learn from.
You seem to have taken offense to my opinion on this matter and to the life of me I dont know why. I never acused you of anything nor did I call you out. I never said that getting out of the cab was the \”manly\” thing to do nor the smartest thing. I stated my opinion that to allow people to walk over you once only invites them to do it again and to others. I applaud people who stand up for themselves and others, as long as those people are willing to accept the consequenses. There was no way this author could have known that simply asking someone to move their vehicle would provoke a violent reaction. That is the point of taking self defense classes. You never know what may provoke people into a violent reaction.
I have been in fights, barfights, and I have been in situations that could escalate to fights. Just last weekend my friend and I were able to avoid what could have been a bad confrontation with some low lives all because a girl took a liking to my friend. We managed to sneak out while they werent paying attention thus resolving the situation without having to fight. If you see it you can avoid it….but you just cant always see how someone is going to react to a given situation.
quote \”Consurvativ\:Some people dont think being in a held up cab is the end of the world. Some people can tolerate miner annoyances and some people dont feel like having a confrontation over something so trivial and risk an incident like the one which occured.I do tolerate minor annoyances and donít go around picking fights over them. Again, merely asking someone to move their car is not confrontational, nor did I have the ability to foresee that someone would take such offence to a question so \”trivial\” that it would warrant violent action on their part.
quote \”Consurvativ\:Perhaps they were intoxicated and were abnormally irritated by some unknown circumstances and were content with causing a little trouble and then going home for the night, but instead they were challenged which set them off and ended up with a situation that didnt need to occur. Is it your fault that confronting them caused them to fight you? NO BUT if you can act in a manner to deter and not provoke incidents that are forseeable then a reasonable and self controlled person wouldnt mind going the extra step to do so.So, are you saying that I am not a reasonable person and one without self-control? I hope in fact that you are not one to blame the victim? Not to be heavy handed with an analogy, but that is the same thing as saying \”she was asking for it by dressing like that\”
quote \”Consurvativ\:Its not as if these 2 guys were robbing some old lady, or threatening harm to someone which would make someone a coward for letting it go. They were simply causing some inconvenience to others, and if you are willing to fight over every little inconvenience you face then youll end up dead, or in jail more than likely.Poor them? Just some innocent trouble making? And there I am ruining their whole night by thwarting their attempts at some innocent fun. No, they didn’t rob some old lady… No, they didn’t threaten harm… They actually attacked ME. They have probably had really tough child-hoods…their mother probably didn’t love them…they didn’t get that great job that they wanted…I suppose I should feel sorry for them. All that and both of them got beat up by some guy that they were trying to attack. Where do the injustices end!!!???
Frankly, you don’t know me. The implication that I am \”willing to fight over every little inconvenience\”, is flat out wrong. If you knew anything about me, you would know I am a very peaceful person. I don’t enjoy getting into fights. I wasn’t looking for a fight. I am a person that would rather discuss a problem then fight over it.
I now see the true tone to your posts. Very interesting.
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