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Mrs. Hippie and I are in the middle of a debate about the pros and cons of introducing children to martial arts. I know this is going to be a biased audience but I assume some of you have seen both good and bad examples.
My take: As a kid I was bullied. I spent a lot of time being afraid of other kids. I was made fun of and as a result I was anti-social in jr high and high school. I didn’t really come out of my shell until college. I feel that some training may have made me less fearful of getting beat up or picked on. I think it may have given me some self confidence and that I might have been better equipped EMOTIONALLY to deal with being a kid.
Mrs. Hippie: A kid who knows Krav may get all the emotional benefits mentioned above but there are other ways of giving kids confidence that do not involve teaching them to hit others. A child doesn’t have the capacity to reason like an adult and teaching them to kick somebody in the balls and then elbow them in the face is probably going to come back to bite you in the ass.
So what do you think? Have you ever seen a circumstance where teaching a kid a martial art made things worse?
Re: Kids and Krav (or other MA)
quote DirtyHippieUte:My take: As a kid I was bullied. I spent a lot of time being afraid of other kids. I was made fun of and as a result I was anti-social in jr high and high school. I didn’t really come out of my shell until college. I feel that some training may have made me less fearful of getting beat up or picked on. I think it may have given me some self confidence and that I might have been better equipped EMOTIONALLY to deal with being a kid.Mrs. Hippie: A kid who knows Krav may get all the emotional benefits mentioned above but there are other ways of giving kids confidence that do not involve teaching them to hit others. A child doesn’t have the capacity to reason like an adult and teaching them to kick somebody in the balls and then elbow them in the face is probably going to come back to bite you in the ass.
I’m going to try to take a unique position and disagree with both of you (that’s just how I roll :)).
Mr Hippie: There are plenty of kids who don’t know MA, yet function just fine in social settings. Having been a teen once myself, I know the kids who get picked on are usually more withdrawn and have trouble making friends. An analogy can be drawn between those kids and the struggle for life on the Serengeti. In Africa, predatory animals target the young, the old, or the sick because they’re an easier meal. In high school, teenage “meanies” also go for the easiest targets to make themselves look cooler, stronger, or funnier to their peers. Any organized sport/club/team activity can help build the confidence and social skills needed to no longer be such easy prey. Finding something the child enjoys (as opposed to what the parents think they should do), will only strengthen the child’s desire to participate and has the dual function of opening dialogue between parent and child. Simply put, it doesn’t have to be MA in my opinion.
Mrs Hippie: Your logic borders on the same logic as denying teens condoms because u don’t want them to engage in sex. Just because you keep them from learning how to throw a punch, that won’t keep them from doing so. And as commonplace as it is to hear about other children having weapons in school, Krav makes incredible sense for those kids who have parents who have taught them that fighting is wrong, but self-defense is mandatory.
Re: Kids and Krav (or other MA)
Here’s a reply and take what you want from it.
My son has been doing Martial Arts for 2 years and he enjoys it. He practices on his own and works at becoming the best he can. He knows not to start a fight, but that he can defend himself if needed. We explain to him that he must go to the teachers or authority figure at least twice and give them a chance to work things out. The Instructors that my son has are spectacular and they make sure the kids understand defending yourself or being a bully. My son does some organized sports, but they aren’t year round and he usually doesn’t see his team except twice a week for 9 weeks.
His TaeKwonDo is a commitment that helps him to keep in shape, focus, and help younger kids to learn the new material. My wife signed my son up and told me when she got home. She calls him a muscle, cause he is always exercising. He loves it and the building factors to his physical, emotional, and the mental benefits are great for him.
If this is a decision you make. Make certain they enjoy it and don’t push them to hard. They will take it out on others.
My .02
Re: Kids and Krav (or other MA)
One of the mantras that our km-X kids hear every single class is: COMMON SENSE BEFORE SELF-DEFENSE!
We have a problem with bullying in our middle school. The son of one of our friends was being picked on. We scheduled a private lesson with him (he’s 11 and he brought his younger sister, age 9) one Sunday. We emphasized that how someone holds themselves goes a long way towards how others see them. I talked about how I was one of the smallest kids in class when I was his age (which is why I got into boxing). The two started coming to class.
Six months later, the verdict is in: He’s not been picked on any more, nor has he had to engage in any physical encounter. Furthermore, these two kids (as well as a grateful mom!) have been our best marketing tools. They have sent many, many kids our way!
Mrs. Hippie will be happy to know that we also talk about how serious it is to strike someone and why it must be a last resort only. We talk about how the best way to get out of a bad situation is not to get in one. We talk about walking away, unconcerned about what someone may be saying to you. So far, so good. Finally, we talk about that rare situation where your back is against the wall – and we stress that the kid has an absolute right to defend him / herself.
I hope that this helps. I think that the big thing is for Mrs. Hippie to sit and watch the kids classes. Get a feel for what is being taught. It doesn’t have to be Cobra Kai…
Re: Kids and Krav (or other MA)
I would have to agree with Blindfold and Stevetuna. My kids were in Taekwondo. They took the kids classes and I took the adult classes. In the kids class, the instuctors always emphisized: “we don’t teach you how to fight, we teach you how not to fight and how to defend your self when you have too”. Another theory they emphisized was to try and make friends with the bully instead of fighting. If you make friends, he is no longer your enemy. If you fight him, win or loose, you still have an enemy.
In school, when two people get into a fight, they both usually get in trouble and usually get suspended for a few days, no matter who started the fight. That’s the way it was at my kids schools anyway. In high school my son used to tell me that he wanted to beat the crap out of someone that keeps bothering him in school. I told him to go to the teacher first and let him/her resolve it. If that didn’t work, I told him to go to his counselor and/or the principle, and make sure this was documented. If that didn’t resolve the problem and the kid or kids kept tormenting him, edging him into a fight, then he had my blessing to beat the crap out of him. And I would support him 100%. He also new that if he instigated a fight, he would not only be in trouble at school, but he would have hell to pay at home.
Also, the most important things a child learns from martial Arts is respect, goal setting, and confidence.
Just my 2c.
Re: Kids and Krav (or other MA)
“I hope that this helps. I think that the big thing is for Mrs. Hippie to sit and watch the kids classes. Get a feel for what is being taught. It doesn’t have to be Cobra Kai…”
EXACTLY. Until one actually sees a class or two, best not to have any preconceived notions. My center has the KMX classes and dang, I wouldn’t getting into a few of those:D
Re: Kids and Krav (or other MA)
my daughter has been doing tae kwon do for almost 4 years(is a 1st degree blackbelt testing for second) and has only used tkd 1 time, a boy older, taller, and meaner than her(i call him future a prison inmate) tried to tie her up to a pole, 1 straight punch and 1 kick sent him away crying and i’ve never seen him since!, she was afraid to tell me this story, i told her that if i ever caught her fighting i would take her out of tkd so fast her head would spin! i think it’s up to the child and the parent to make sure the child knows the right time to use martial arts, and when to walk away, that said, the place that we take classes at won’t even teach krav to anyone under the age of 13 unless a parent is taking classes with them (and then thay have to be 12, and taking tae kwon do also) my daughter is 11 and will be 12 in january so they bent the rules for her, i’m not sure why 13(or 12) is the age limit, but i think that’s for the maturity of the child, any martial arts can be very harmful if the student isn’t right for it,(i.e. johnny from the karate kid)
in the begining i was the parent who did’nt want my kid’s taking martial art’s(it cost’s to much!,when will we have time to take them!,what if they get hurt!), now i’m the one who loves taking her to class,working overtime to pay for it,and fighting with my wife to keep her in, i just wish my other daughter would have stayed in tkd
good luck in whatever you decide,martial arts won’t make a bully, it gives a bully more tools to use
russell
Re: Kids and Krav (or other MA)
When I was a kid, my twin brother and I were always getting bullied. Our dad tried to talk to the principal, but not very much was done about it. He decided to get us started with Hapkido and gave us both the strict warnings that have been listed above. After we had the confidence that we could deal with these bullies, they stopped picking on us (self confidence goes a long way against hoodlums… even miniature ones).
One kid didn’t get the point and decided he was going to throw my brother on the ground when we were in 4th grade. Though our technique probably wasn’t the best, he got one of the worst beat-downs ever dished out by 2 4th graders. When we got dragged into the principal’s office, my brother and I were sure we were going to get expelled… but it didn’t happen. The other kid got suspended and had to appologize to us. Apparently my dad had gone off on the principal when she called him while we were waiting outside of her office. The power of good documentation.
J-
Re: Kids and Krav (or other MA)
quote downforlife76:After we had the confidence that we could deal with these bullies, they stopped picking on us (self confidence goes a long way against hoodlums… even miniature ones).This is what I hope for.
I wasn’t a total introvert or a weakling (although I was very small for my age). I was on the wrestling team, I played little league football, and I was really involved in the Boy Scouts. My problem was a total fear of being hit and not knowing what to do. If somebody threatened to punch me I would freeze. If they tackled me I could wrestle well enough to escape but if a fist came out I was terrified. Any bully could scare the pee out of me just because I knew they would throw punches and all I could do was hope they didn’t break my nose.
I think a little knowledge of the mechanics of self defense and the comfort of knowing that getting hit isn’t the end of the world would have gone a long way.
Re: Kids and Krav (or other MA)
quote DirtyHippieUte:I think a little knowledge of the mechanics of self defense and the comfort of knowing that getting hit isn’t the end of the world would have gone a long way.I think that’s it – in a nutshell.
Re: Kids and Krav (or other MA)
I think the kids in KMX class also learn what to do in case an adult tries to abduct them, so that’s another good reason to send them.
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GiantkillerRe: Kids and Krav (or other MA)
We have been very lucky, in regards to my son and defending himself. My son has had to protect himself in a few instances. He has gone to the teacher or been involved with more than one person when things got dirty. Luckily he hasn’t been held accountable by anyone except us, because he has always been in the right. We have been very lucky and hope that he keeps himself out of trouble.
We did have one instance where 3 boys were tryting to hurt my son and after he had attempted to avoid things and it didn’t work. He had knocked the boys down and the counselors were on their way. When a very bad thing happened.
A boy was running to his mother, who had just come to pick him up. As she walked through the door the ruckus was going on. Her loving little boy ran across my evil monster sons path and my son thought he was another one of the boys trying to get him from behind.
My son turned to backfist this boy in the face and his lip split, an under statement. The aftercare counselors told us what happened and if the mother had not walked in on the whole thing everything would have been okay. They ended up suspending my son for a day and the counselors told him that he wasn’t wrong, but he should look before he leaps. One of the counselors told me that it was great and was just amazed at how quickly my son was able to determine a threat from behind.My wife and I told him that he better look at who he is turning on before he hits anyone. We made sure to tell him that he wasn’t wrong, but he wasn’t quite right either. We had to explain quite a bit to him.
So this story was a little bit of the good and bad. Be ready to explain both. Just figured I would share.
Re: Kids and Krav (or other MA)
Mr. Hippie,
Does Mrs. Hippie believe teaching young people to punch and kick will make them more violent? My experience has been the opposite. I’ve taught kids MA for 12 years and my observation is that it does exactly the opposite. I have kids who are in traditional MA and others that box or kickbox and I’m having a hard time thinking of even one of them who has misused their talent or become a bully or more aggerssive.On a personal level I have three boys. All started very young training to defend themselves. Here is a vid of my 15 year old on his black belt test. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AidzE2c6qII He has a great deal of ability, but he has succesfully talked his way out of a couple of situations and the one time he was forced to defend himself he took the kid down and held him until the teacher intervened. Without the training he would have had neither the confidence nor the ability to end the situation in a relatively non-violent manner.
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