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Okay, so we all know that Krav Maga’s roots are in a civil defense of a minority group from persecution by a totalitarian regime. That much is established.
But that minority group is defined in one sense by cultural distinctions, in another sense by religious distinctions. My question is this…
Is there any value in Krav Maga sticking more strongly to the roots, not just of Israel as a nation, but Judaism as a religion?
Further questions on this topic come to mind when I think about this topic…was Imi himself more religiously observant, or more secular?
I know many Krav practitioners and instructors will think that these questions are silly at best, dangerous at worst…but it would be contrary to my nature not to ask these questions.
\”Is there any value in Krav Maga sticking more strongly to the roots, not just of Israel as a nation, but Judaism as a religion?\”
No.
Any form of self-defense, whether it be Krav Maga or a Colt 1911, is allowable in Judaism. Preserving life(yours or someone elses) is one of, if not the only, situation that would allow an observant Jew to break the tenants of the Sabbath. This does not mean that it is only allowable on the Sabbath.
You can derive from Exodus 22:1 that self defense is acceptable. Also some will cite Leviticus 19:16 in regards to involving yourself in the defense of another person.
I don’t think any aspect of self defense needs to be tied to any religious belief. You definitely don’t want to hesitate in a situation to determine if it is Biblically legal.
With that being said, some will question the success of the Maccabees or the success of the nation of Israel in every war since 1948, but more especially 1967, as being a miracle. Given the overwhelming numbers and superior weapons being used, one could draw the conclusion that there was Divine intervention.
However, the tenants of Krav work against superior foes by using intelligent attacks, regardless of religious fervor or the size of the defender.
KravMDjeff
When I learned krav it was at a JCC and the instructor regularly tied it to the preservation of Israel and the Jewish people as a whole, both secular and observant. He regularly injected wisdom from the Torah as part of the class – things like when it is acceptable to take a life. If a student bowed or called him sir, he would remind them that bowing to a man is prohibited by Torah and that we learn Krav so we will never have to bow again.
I think Krav should hold closely to its roots in the homeland. The Torah influences behavior for both the secular and religious Jew and I think from the quotes at the end of Imi’s book, his goal for students of krav was that each would become a mensch.
I remember one class where someone asked about choking an opponent to death and the instructor replied that he would never do that because it was cruel and that even if it was necessary to take the life of an enemy it should be as painless as possible.
Anyway thats my $.02.
I think most people come to KM classes to learn effective self-defense methods, not to be lectured about religion. Also, there are many non-Jews taking Krav Maga classes these days and the wisdom of the Torah doesn’t necessarily apply to them.
Learning about the roots of the system can be interesting, but I don’t think we should start teaching the moves and methods based on religious principles.
That part about bowing is interesting, because many krav places are also studios for other martial arts like kempo and tae kwon do, where bowing is customary. And are Jews not supposed to call people sir?
Whats wrong with throwing some Torah wisdom into class?
People learn karate, judo, and other eastern arts for self defense and get eastern religious wisdom weaved into their classes. No one seems to have a problem with that. Why not balance the brute force of Krav with lessons about when you should/not fight or kill?
Ryan, you and GK agree???? I should repent……as the end is surely coming…..
Acccccctualy, I find the religious tie to the martial arts discussion fascinating. As some of the posts said, if I learn about Eastern religions in Aikido, why not at least learn the background of Judaism with Krav? Not necessary, but an interesting aside.
I will note, that there were so MANY factors in the 1967 war that lead to Israel’s domination, even against the odds, that it was NOT divine intervention. For that matter, the arrogance gained from that whooping nearly lead to their defeat in the Yom Kippur War in 73. Only training, (yes, KM and all the other H2H and gunnery and flying and and and….) and pure guts and determination, led to persevering in that war….
anyway, my 2 cents too
JC
It’s tough, because in the Baltimore area there is a huge population of both secular and religious Jews, as well as both American and Israeli Jews. All of those subgroups have different opinions on these matters…
I have also had eastern religion, philosophy, etc. injected into other martial arts training, and the instructors never seemed to care much whether or not it was actually beneficial…it was simply a part of the art they were teaching.
Similarly, in the Greek and Roman military annals are acts of military training and utilization that come directly from their philosophical and religious worldview.
I hope people realize that, although I hold to firm spiritual beliefs of a specific nature, that my question was intended to be as open-ended as possible…
Re:
quote \”Keith327th\:The Jews are God’s chosen people, and they created God’s Chosen Fighting Style.That’s hilarious 😆
Like G.V., my instructors aren’t Jewish. One is Israeli, served in the IDF for a decade and a half or so, but doesn’t identify himself with Judaism, so my studio is purely secular.
While I appreciate the diversity that my studio draws, that certainly wouldn’t happen in a traditional martial art where more emphasis is placed on philosophy, I’d like the information to be more readily available. As it is, somebody from my studio would have only one instructor who could answer questions, and this person isn’t always forthcoming with information.\”People learn karate, judo, and other eastern arts for self defense and get eastern religious wisdom weaved into their classes. No one seems to have a problem with that.\”
Yes, and many people take Krav Maga BECAUSE of this.
\”Why not balance the brute force of Krav with lessons about when you should/not fight or kill?\”
I would venture to say all KM instructors do this–there’s no need for religious overtones.
This is a self defense system, taught by self defense instructors. There are better places, led by more informed people, to learn your religion.
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