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So in the spirit of Giantkiller trying things out, I decided I had to test the gun discharge on the gun defense. I previously watched kmman’s video, but I had to do it myself.
So I went out to the mountains today and I took my digital camera which also records video. I had to do the grab and fire the gun myself, so I did the best I could to grab under the gun barrel as I have been taught in the KM gun defense. I got a real strong grip on the barrel and pulled the trigger. I blew my fingers off, and there was blood everywhere.
Not really….
When I pulled the trigger, the gun fired and jammed. The spent shell was not discharged, which also means it was unable to chamber the next round. There was no pain at all holding the barrel. No burns, no cuts, my hand didnt even feel numb. I repeated the process three times. Twice with a .40cal Glock 21 and once with a .45cal Sig P220. The .45 had a little more kick, but no pain at all.
I have video of this, but I am just learning to use my new camera and I need some video editing software. If anyone knows of a free video converter that can take this gigantic .mov file and turn it into a small .wmv file Ill post the videos so you guys can watch.
KM freakin rules!
OK, so found some free converter software that puts a stupid overlay on the video, but you can see it working none-the-less.
OK, this could also fall under my alternative KM line two.
I have also tried this and there is no pain at all and the gun jammed after shooting once. It should go without saying, but I will say it anyway. Make SURE you have no part of your hand in front of the end of the barrel IF anyone else tries this…. Yes, I know, but people get excited when trying something new, so I had to point that fact out.
It is worth noting, that IF you do this with a revolver, there is a lot more hot gas that escapes at the point of the grab and you will burn/hurt your hand some, but in a CQB situation, it is better than being shot. Now, anyone got an S&W .500 I can borrow for a weekend?
JC
I hope you didn’t accidently shoot a hiker while trying this. I’d feel responsable….
I wonder if this would also work if you are having smaller hands. Do you need a lot of force to keep that slide in place?
No hikers were harmed in the making of this video. We were at an outdoor shooting area in the mountains and shooting into the side of a hill. I have owned guns for years, taken firearms safety courses, and gone through volunteer sherrif office firearms training. What you don’t see on the video is the 30 minute safety discussion my friend and I had before doing it, and the 20 minutes of walking around to find the best spot with the best angle of fire. Not to mention the hours of thinking about it to get up the nerve to try it.
GK – To answer your question about smaller hands. I do have big hands, and fairly strong forearms, so I would consider myself on the high end of grip strength. However, if someone was weaker with smaller hands, I am pretty confident they could do it. The thing to keep in mind is that it is not your strength vs. the force of a gun firing. No one is strong enough to stop that.
If you look at the mechanics of a semi-auto pistol, the slide on the top has to travel approximately one inch to discharge the spent shell and chamber the next round. If the slide mechanism travels even 1/16 of and inch less than that, the full cycle is not completed and the gun jams.
You even have the internal mechanics of the gun working WITH you on this move. If you are not familiar with pistols, there is a spring inside the gun. When the gun fires, the force of explosion pushes the slide back. This compresses the internal spring. When the slide goes all the way back, the spent shell is ejected. The spring is what pushes the slide back into place and chambers the next round. There is a delicate balance between the force of the explosion pushing the slide back, and the spring pushing it forward. By gripping the slide during fire, you are making it harder for the slide to go back, which in turn reduces the amount of force compressing the spring. It is not you vs. the force of the explosion, it is simply you vs. the delicate balance of the internal parts of the gun.
Just upset the balance, and the gun no workie.
However, it looks like I just need to find a woman with small hands and a weak grip willing to give it a try…
Thanks Slayn, that’s a good explanation. Unfortunatly I couldn’t see the video, I can only see the Quicktime format, but I can picture it in my mind.
I have a relatively strong grip, just not those gigantic bodybuilder hands, so I was wondering, but it sounds as if it shouldn’t be a problem.
Of course, best thing to do would be to try it out. John, weren’t we all going to go to the shooting range? 😀 😉
Wow, great explanation Siayn
GK, tell you what, nest time I am in LA I’ll hit the range with you and let you try it. Should be Sept or Oct……
JC
Check your range rules before you go guys. The reason I did this in the mountains is because every range I have ever shot at would throw you out in a second if they found you \”playing\” with guns like this. Ranges typically have VERY strict guidelines about what you can and cannot do while you are there.
All right FFDO!!! Your treat? 😀 😉
Let me warn you, though, the reason I want to go to the shooting range so badly is that I have no experience with real guns at all. So gun newbie (i grew up in Europe where it is very hard for a civilian to get a gun).
But once in a while, at some of those amusement parks where you can shoot at targets, I’m usually pretty good, considering I have had no training. So maybe I’m a natural?? 8)
I’d really like to know more about guns, if I’m going to disarm a mugger, I better know what to do with the thing once I’ve got it. But that shooting range seems to be very expensive, that’s why I thought maybe we could get a discount if we go with a whole group or something.
Or we could drive out into the desert and shoot at cans. That’ll only cost us the ammo and maybe a twelve pack.
My question is, what about a revolver?
One is certainly going to get burned if your hand wraps around the gap between the cylinder and barrel.
It is certainly a valid question.
Answering with \”Would you rather get burned or shot?\” implies there is only one way to defend against guns.
I am curious if there is a Krav approved way to deal with a revolver that does not involve grabbing the barrel and getting burned. If not, do any of you with other backgrounds have suggestions on an alternative way to handle a revolver?
While I am at it, what about a snub nose revolver or a 3\” conceal carry semi-auto pistol? There is no barrel to grab on those. How should that type of firearm be handled?
Most of our tests indicate that the sting you feel from the gas discharge does not make you let go of the gun, even in non-adrenaline situations.
But it should also be said that the technique does not require you to catch the cylinder (or, in the case of a semi-automatic, the back of the slide). In fact, even though the weapon often jams, we always train as though the weapon may continue to fire. So against a long or medium-barreled revolver, you can grab the barrel only and the technique will still work.
Against smaller weapons, you end up making the redirection against the small portionof the gun visible and the hand itself. In gun from the from, the disarm can be a little more difficult because the gun is \”buried\” in the hand, so you focus on control and beating the attacker. (This is related to a discussion being had in another thread about disarm variations in gun from behind.)
If anyone is interested I have a small computer clip of somebody loading a Baby Eagle pistol, mostly likely a 9mm. They hold it down range and someone else puts their hand around the barrel / slide of the gun. One person fires the gun and you can clearly see how holding the barrel / slide when itís being fired doesnít hurt the person doing the disarm.
Take care,
Mark
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