Krav Maga Worldwide and joint locks/breaks

[krav-madave]

Hello all, first time posting here on the forums but I’ve spent plenty of times reading over various things here and have found the community here quite intelligent and helpful when other members have questions.

That being said, I have a question of my own that I was hoping to get some answers for. I have been taking Krav Maga for a bit over a year now with about 175 hours of total training between Level 1,2, all level and L2/3 classes (and am hoping to officially be level 3 next month) and I’m yet to really see any real joint break techniques outside of “step to the side and kick the side of the opponent’s knee” and Cavaliers.

When I began looking into Krav Maga before I signed up for it last year, many sources that I read/saw had indicated that the system contained a fair number of joint break techniques (although not nearly as much as Jiu Jitsu) and things like arm bars/wrist locks. But in talking to some instructors and having read Complete Krav Maga (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Krav-Maga-Self-Defense-Techniques/dp/1569755736/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368309214&sr=8-1&keywords=complete+krav+Maga) cover to cover, I haven’t seen or heard much about joint breaks existing at Krav maga Worldwide (I take Krav Maga at the Owings Mills Maryland location).

The long and short of this post is, do joint break techniques outside of Cavaliers exist in Krav Maga Worldwide? Regardless of the answer, it is an AMAZING system that I plan to keep progressing through. I do like the simplicity of the system and agree that joint breaks can be a bit on the fancier side, however it would be nice to have them in the toolbox if the opportunity and need would arise.

Thanks ahead of time!

[metta-world-krav-maga]

Re: Krav Maga Worldwide and joint locks/breaks

Good post/topic. Top of my head…

arm bar (taught in Level 3 at KMW)
cavaliers
finger break (both bear hug and full nelson defense — taught in either 2 or 3)
stomp kicks
wrist pressure on choke from behind with a pull (kind of a makeshift cavalier if I’m not mistaken, which I very well may be — taught in Level 2)

Remember, it’s a principle based system. As I understand it, several principles might apply here:

1. do as much damage in as little time as possible to neutralize the threat/render the attacker unwilling or unable to physically harm you (ie. go to 11 if you have to, don’t go to 11 if a lower volume will do the trick)

2. specifically in terms of joints/breaks, no matter what your target (arm, leg, fingers, toes) the basic idea is find the fulcrum, find which way it’s not supposed to go, then either use pressure to make it go that way until it breaks, or smash it (use aggression/force/white blinding violence) to make it go that way until it breaks

3. fill your toolbox with all sorts of nasty stuff taught both in and outside of our KM system, and make sure to always use the proper tool for the proper job (ie. use principle 2 only as it relates to principle 1, so don’t be putting some goon boy in the hospital if they poke you in the chest, maybe just poke them in the throat)

ps — I seem to think law enforcement has more joint techniques than civilian curriculum, but again could be wrong.

[krav-madave]

Re: Krav Maga Worldwide and joint locks/breaks

Ah, thank you for the great response! Fortunately I am already pretty familiar with small/large joint manipulation so I have some of that in the good old toolbox already and am able to pull what i do know off under pressure, I just wanted to see specifically what Krav has to offer.

As a follow up question to your point #2, does Krav Maga begin to put more emphasis on this particular principal at any level? I would understand not putting so much stress on it at level 1 but I WOULD expect to hear more about it in level 4/5 if at all, so just curious is all.

I would like to also add that it’s nice that you put in the part about appropriate use of force. Personally I wouldn’t immediately break someone’s arm/shoulder over poking me in the chest at a bar, but some people would. It’s good to see people emphasizing responsibility with training.

Thanks again thumbsup

[metta-world-krav-maga]

Re: Krav Maga Worldwide and joint locks/breaks

You got it man. Forgot to mention key lock from side mount, which will damage if not break the shoulder joint (Level 3).

My own experience has been that that principle (find which way the target bends and then bend it the other way until it breaks) isn’t something I got from the official KMW curriculum, but tends to come up of its own accord when learning any of the aforementioned techniques in or around Level 3. It could just be my 3 main teachers but it seems like a common sense way to impart the objective of those techniques so students like myself don’t get bogged down in the IKEA instruction manual of joint manipulation. The specific wording about finding the fulcrum etc. is all Sean Maga (CJ’s Dad).

The use of force thing is important for us civilians and not just LEO and military rules of engagement. Breaking someone’s arm is a risky (possibly illegal) overreaction to being poked in the chest and a low-percentage play if someone’s really trying to hurt you. They still have another arm, an adrenaline rush you just gave them, additional incentive you just gave them, possibly weapons, possibly friends, possibly friends with weapons, and might not even feel it if they’re high. So yeah, break an arm if it comes up and you can do it fast, but don’t expect that to scramble their computer or end the fight. Just attack attack attack and then GTFO. Also, people tend to misinterpret Krav Maga as merely being Israeli annihilation training (please refer to the previous sentence as for why they might think that). There’s obviously plenty of that and for good reason, but it’s really about doing whatever takes to get your butt home safe, not about being an aggro psychopath or a common bully. After all, we’re not tough guys or criminals, we’re civilized people with winning personalities. :D:

[lions2011]

Re: Krav Maga Worldwide and joint locks/breaks

If you want to learn some real core submissions then enroll in a core BJJ class. You will not get much in submissions in Krav Maga. Just a basic white belt class in BJJ will give you plenty of weapons you will not get in Krav.
I am going to check out a core BJJ class next summer I think myself. Nothing too complex just to learn the basics.

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