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I just read on the internet that you should not do a high intensity cardio and weight training on the same day. Basically the article said something along the lines that doing both on the same day your body will burn fat as well as muscle. Has anyone out there ever heard this? My KM class is so late (8:00pm) that I normally go to the gym before hand but I want to make sure I’m not doing more harm then good. Any replies will be appreciated! Thanks!
Re: Krav/Weight training on same day…
Gene,
If you hang at an average gym for a few months, you’ll see people training there 4-5 times a week. It is rare that you see actual progress. “PR’s” are very hard won. Most of the routines, people follow are better than sitting on the coach, but not the best for getting the kind of strength, power and body composition that truly want.Look at an Olympic sprinter or decathlete. Lean, strong. Think for a second how they train. Do they lift on one day and then do their track work on another? Nope. How about swimmers? Nope. The list can go on.
The lab is great, but doing trumps it every time. Its probably better to find someone that has had some success in achieving the kind of fitness you want and training other people to achieve that kind of fitness to help you out.
BTW- This advice has been out there for a long time. I used to buy it, don’t anymore.
Re: Krav/Weight training on same day…
quote garddawg:If you hang at an average gym for a few months, you’ll see people training there 4-5 times a week. It is rare that you see actual progress.I was hoping no one would notice :(:
I can only do cardio and weights in the same day if I do weights first, if I run first I am too zappped and just go home.
Re: Krav/Weight training on same day…
Gene, I think it depends on your goals.
If you are trying to add lean body mass (LBM) then yes, the addition of intense cardio could put your body in a catabolic state which may interfere with gaining, and maintaining, LBM. Intense cardio, even on the days you do not weight train, can interfere with this goal as LBM is built while recuperating.
A second issue with doing both, at least in the same session, is that if you do cardio first and you are tired you run the risk of injury with your weight training, especially if you are lifting heavy and performing complex motions. Generally, professional athletes will split their classic aerobic and anaerobic training to morning and evening sessions if they do both in the same day. Hybrid systems, circuit training, ìcomplexî training, hurricane training and other such programs combine both and are designed to do so but are generally not targeted at optimal muscular hypertrophy or specific strength gains.
For those that have already reached a level of good fitness and want to get ìbigger, stronger, fasterî and break through a plateau I would advocate a phased mentality to training. For example take 6 weeks an focus on muscle hypertrophy, increase caloric intake and rest, then move on.
For the rest of us mere mortals I am an advocate of lifting fairly heavy with the big three (squat, bench, dead) and anaerobic training in your desired field combining suitable exercises on differing days or morning afternoon splits. For MMA that could be a Bas Rutten type shadow striking/grappling routine with barbell complexes, kettle bells etc or even bodyweight exercises such as weighted bucking, dips, chin ups, jumping squats, planks etcÖ you could also try a program like Cross Fit. :OhMy:
Re: Krav/Weight training on same day…
Nemo,
I’ve been training in both KM and BJJ for about 2 months now and prior to training I weighed between 200-205. Before I started training I went to the gym regularly 4-5 times a week. Was I in shape yes – decent shape but I wasn’t one of the “meatheads” you might see in the gym (no offense guys – lol). Since training my clothes are a lot looser and the “show muscles” are not there but I weigh just about the same 200lbs.
Now about 6 months ago I weighed about 192lbs and was probably in the best shape I’ve been in since high school (32 now) but I was actually thicker then what I am now though I weighed 8-13lbs less. My goal with weight training and KM/BJJ is to get back to that 190lb range and still have mass as well as lean muscles. Also back 6 months ago I would do cardio 3 days a week for 25 mins (sprint for 2min, jog for 3 min, brisk walk for 2mins, and I would try to stay as close to that 2/3/2 breakdown for the full 25 mins). No where near the cardio I get now with training KM 2 days a week and BJJ 2 days a week.
After reading what I read this morning I thought maybe me going to the gym before KM class maybe contributing to my lost of muscle mass. And I really don’t want to continue down that path. Thus the reason for this thread
Re: Krav/Weight training on same day…
A very good book to get is “Starting Strength” by Mark Rippetoe. It will give you a excellent description of the basic lifts, as well as simple programming.
Re: Krav/Weight training on same day…
I can sympathize as at one point I was 215lbs 8% BF and thought I was in good ìshapeî turns out that I wasnít. Ya I could lift a heck of a lot of weight and even run 50 yards at a great clip but my endurance and flexibility were lacking. Now at 175lbs maybe 11% BF I realize that for what I concentrate on now, MMA and mountaineering, I am in far better shape.
Your body will tend to reach equilibrium for your desired activity.
When I started dropping mass I suffered a bit from the Adonis complex thing. I, however, came to realize that it was better to be able to perform well rather than fill out that tank top.For esthetics, a program called Hypertrophy Specific Training (ìHSTî) is great. It in founded is solid science and will, without a doubt, keep lean body mass on you and add more if you so desire. This program has a website found at this URL:
[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Again from an esthetics point of view, and what I am referring to is the body builder look, prolonged intense cardio is not ideal (such as MMA training). It will hamper your ability to retain LBM and gain LBM. The cardio you were doing before is close to what a body builder would do to eliminate fat. When I trained people interested in having low body fat and large muscles I would recommend short intense cardio sessions. These session would not exceed 20 minutes. These sessions were in the morning and their purpose was to raise core temperature and metabolism in order to incite an optimal state of fat burning throughout the day while preserving LBM.
Now having said that, HST is not necessarily the best program for overall fitness or even strength. Short high intensity cardio is also not great for true conditioning. This gets back to my example at 215lbs 8% BF. I looked great, big and ripped but my 175 lb body would probably be able to kick my 215 lb bodyís ass (and not just because I have trained more MMA since)!
I donít wanna go there but I feel I should head off this question from the get go. Some people look at MMA athletes and other athletes and say ìwell how come they can have look huge, ripped and have all the functional strength and enduranceî. Well there two answers to that. One is that they are genetically gifted, the other is that they use performance enhancing drugs, specifically hypertrophy inducing agents such as AAS (anabolic androgenic steroids) and similar agents (insulin, growth hormone etc.). Yes Sherk did get busted and so have many othersÖ The risk reward ratio in using gear (AAS) for recreational use is not worth it (trust me).
So after that long winded response, the short answer is that I do believe that your MMA training is causing you to drop some LBM in your bodyís effort to reach equilibrium (homeostasis). Nutrition can assist you. Food is THE most anabolic agent out there. Simply put if you eat more calories than you expend you should tend not to drop LBM. Of course other factors play a part in this.
Iíd suggest that your stagger your weight training from your cardio. Given your concerns about dropping LBM I would not do them together. Make sure to eat well, take your multi-vitamin, supplement with extra protein, avoid glycemic foods, consider glutamine and creatine, blah, blah, blah. But for your particular problem make absolutely sure to consume a pre and post workout meal around both your Krav and weight training sessions. The best post workout supplement is a 4 to 1 blend of carbs to protein in liquid form (then eat again in an hour). I would also suggest downing a Gator-aid or something prior to Krav class so that you do not dip more than you have into muscle glycogen stores for energy.
Let us know how this works for you.
Re: Krav/Weight training on same day…
quote Nemo_Dat:I would also suggest downing a Gator-aid or something prior to Krav class so that you do not dip more than you have into muscle glycogen stores for energy.Let us know how this works for you.
Just a suggestion for those that may not know, bottled Gatorade is full of HFCS. I’d suggest limiting intake of the pre-packaged as much as possible. If you still want to do Gatorade (there are tons of other good supplements available too), buy the powdered mix and make your own. The powder uses Dextrose as a sweetener, if I remember correctly, instead of HFCS.
– Kelly
Re: Krav/Weight training on same day…
Gene,
I am not a Krav practitioner yet (still have a few other goals I want to achieve first), however I did powerlifting for a few years and have been training for and competing in strongman competitions for about three years now. When I am trying to lose weight or up my conditioning I train with less rest and more intensity which could potentially lead to me lose lean muscle due to my body going into a catabolic state. Here are some things that I did to keep my lean muscle up.Upped food consumption but kept the diet clean (tuna, chicken, yams etc.). This is probably the best thing to do if you do not want to spend cash on supplements.
Upped protein intake via food and protein shakes.
Consumed Branched Chain Amino Acids (BCAA). BCAA’s taken during training have been shown to increase both growth hormone and insulin, thus increasing anabolism and anti-catabolism.
I would normally consume 15g when I woke up, 15 more between breakfast and lunch. Then I would pop BCAA’s during my workout and after my workout. Finally I would consume about 15g ~ 20g of BCAA’s at bedtime.
If you checkout t-nation.com they have a lot of information on BCAA’s.
Just my .2
Re: Krav/Weight training on same day…
quote hawk1278:Gene,Upped food consumption but kept the diet clean (tuna, chicken, yams etc.). This is probably the best thing to do if you do not want to spend cash on supplements.
Upped protein intake via food and protein shakes.
Consumed Branched Chain Amino Acids (BCAA). BCAA’s taken during training have been shown to increase both growth hormone and insulin, thus increasing anabolism and anti-catabolism.
I would normally consume 15g when I woke up, 15 more between breakfast and lunch. Then I would pop BCAA’s during my workout and after my workout. Finally I would consume about 15g ~ 20g of BCAA’s at bedtime.
I second this. But also make sure to keep carb intake high post and pre-workout when doing aerobic exercise.
Re: Krav/Weight training on same day…
quote zen4me:Just a suggestion for those that may not know, bottled Gatorade is full of HFCS. I’d suggest limiting intake of the pre-packaged as much as possible. If you still want to do Gatorade (there are tons of other good supplements available too), buy the powdered mix and make your own. The powder uses Dextrose as a sweetener, if I remember correctly, instead of HFCS.– Kelly
You’re correct. It is dextrose, and sucrose as well.
Actually.. Here ya go 🙂
Sucrose, Dextrose, Citric Acid, Salt, Sodium Citrate, Monopotassium Phosphate, Natural Lemon and Lime flavors with Other Natural Flavors, Yellow 5.
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