- This topic has 31 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
I would like to know the various types of military combat training that are around and which country they originated in.
I can’t seem to find a comprehensive list anywhere so I thought My fellow KM people would be able to help compile such a list.
I will start it off,
please post and I will add to list.
Krav Maga, Haganah – Israel
Hapkido, TKD – Korea
Sambo, -Russia
MCMAP,LINE, KRAV – USA
Pekiti Tirsia Kali – Phillipines
Ancient Muay Thai – Thailand
Shan Shou – China
Pankration – Ancient Rome
Bando, Karate – JapanIn America and other western countries, there’s a long list of skills that have fallen into disuse from the military, like saber and bayonet fencing. There’s a wealth of information available online, especially at the American Heritage Martial Arts site.
In WW2, Fairbairn’s system (combato, the lethal version of defendo) was taught to American and British troops and called \”silent killing\”. This was based mostly on lethal stand up open hand striking and low kicking, as well as weapons like knives, shovels, and helmets. Then, the US had a new combatives program for various reasons unknown to me, and now we have the Army combatives based on BJJ, and there’s the MCMAP, which is highly criticized, but I don’t know a whole lot about it. There was the LINE program, which is no longer in use (and was also criticized a lot). There’s also SCARS, but I don’t want to get into that because I’m not sure how that fits in. So, there’s America.
A lot of countries had hand to hand fighting curriculums, but usually they don’t have names.
Tae kwon do was practiced by the Tiger Division of the Korean Army, but I’m sure it was different than American Tae kwon do (it may not have even been tae kwon do, but all Korean martial arts kind of go under that name). I’ve also heard of Red Cell, but I don’t know what it is.
Patayin estillo is a fighting system of the filipino army, and emphasizes essentials of fighting with the bolo, from WW2.
Russia has used systema for a long time, and trains in sambo, but it is viewed as a sport, especially in Russia.
I’ve heard China teaches san shou, which is a really cool sport but seems a bit odd for a military situation. I’ve also heard they do jing quan do, Alex Tao’s system of kickboxing and power breaking.
Israel does haganah, I believe?Other Combat Style
HAGANA-at: http://fight2survive.com/default.aspx
COMBAT-SURVIVAL at: http://www.edgecombatfitness.commilitary arts
The ancient romans trained in pankration, brought to the US by Jim Arvantis. The Gurkhas, who were the only allied soldiers the Japanese ran from in WWII, trained in Bando which was brought to the US by Dr. Muang Gyi. The Thai army uses ancient thai boxing, the art prior to the sport that included stick, knife and spear. Several indiginous tribes in the Phillipines used various forms of Kali/Escrima to deliver mass casualties to US forces using only a few warriors during the Spanish-American war. Then the art that is pretty much 100% American, the lone individual with a firearm. Americans were the first to deploy rifled barrels among the common people and let the individual gain prowess with the firearm rather than deploy at squad levels or higher. The first Americans to use this principal was during the French-Indian war. The settlers would be able to fight the French regulars, who had smooth-bore barrels, from places of concealment and not standing in formation directly across from the enemy. We learned this from the Native Indians. Too bad we had to relearn this lesson during the first 2 years of the American Revolution. There are several good books out there which will help you with your history research.
Hiya,
For some very good background on \”WWII Combatives\” (e.g. Fairbairn-Sykes & derivatives) check out:
They’ve got a lot of the original manuals etc. as .pdf files. Fascinating historically and very useful today (IMHO) although I’d steer clear of the Abhwer stuff 🙂
Stay safe,
Al
I am not only doing this for historic reasons.
I would just like to know what system each countries army uses today
Lets get as many countries as we can!
there are lots of them!
I don’t really think that countries now, use just one system. I think they just learn tequniques that work from alot of systems.
I also believe it depends on the unit there in. Actually if you talk to anyone in the military, even special forces units, they don’t get alot of H2H combat training, they get some, but really thats not how wars are fought today, so why train to.http://globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-25-150/index.html
Free online US Army Manual on Hand to hand combatives 😀 Enjoy!!!!
Hiya,
From the current Army Manual:
\”You are essentially stalling until someone can come to your aid.\”
Well maybe it’s time to reconsider whether BJJ is an appropriate system for military use.
Just my $0.02
Stay safe (and off the ground!)
Al
\”but really thats not how wars are fought today, so why train to.\”
one word for you,
FALLUJAH!
are you kidding me?
Re:
quote \”wiccaman\:Hiya,From the current Army Manual:
\”You are essentially stalling until someone can come to your aid.\”
Well maybe it’s time to reconsider whether BJJ is an appropriate system for military use.
Just my $0.02
Stay safe (and off the ground!)
Al
Hi Wiccaman I did not notice that. Which section of the Army manual did you find it at because I can not find it? While I am sure there are some tactics still good for use in military use but we really need to get back to what actually works and keep it in the manuals especially with Homeland Security and every American and British citizen to defend ourselves from terrorists as well as prevent the regular crime that is going on. Since you live in England can you comment on the SAS hand to hand combat system? I have seen the book of the SAS and would like to know what the pro’s and con’s of the SAS system are ? Thank You Heath
I’d have to say that I would believe that all modern militaries are mostly just giving soldiers a ray of hope when they teach any amount of h2h combat. I definitely don’t believe that it’s anything that the military spends any serious amount of time or money on. From my experience in the military, the h2h instruction is so minimal as to really be worthless. Personally, I don’t put much stock in any statements that the military uses some particular martial art.
Toppitbull, You said \”look at Fallujah\”. Ok, are there many h2h situations there? Just because it is close quarter, doesnt mean h2h. Like I said, and like what WIM said. The military gets basic h2h training, but it is rarely used.
In Mcleans magazine (Canada’s \”TIME\” Mag).
They followed a platoon into fallujah.
Believe me there was alot of of H2H.
Insurgents jumping out of cabinets, ceilings and so on.
But I do understand what you guys are saying.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
