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Karl, I so liked that idea thought I would start one…
OK, practicing this is why one of my roomates will no longer play with me.
From my understanding, tuck your chin, turn into the attacker and counter with massive combatives. If you stay on your feet you will take the pressure off your throat and be able to attack freely. Even if it is tight and in a noose type of grip on your neck you have three to five seconds to turn, take the attacker out and get the belt/rope loosened. BTW, if you tell your roomate to really try and kill you and he weighgs 260 pounds, and he brings you to the ground, if you turn and tuck the chin you can work on getting the belt off even with his knee in your back. (Ripping the pinky finger down to the wrist seemed effective.)
JC
Is tucking the chin really going to help much if the belt/rope is already around your neck? Doing that might just kind of trap the rope there, although it might help to tighten your muscles some.
You can also do a pluck, same as in choke defenses, to loosen the tension in the rope, before you turn around.
If you could somehow tell (probably difficult, but you could practice this), which part of the rope is on top, you might be able to pull or pluck on that part of the rope and turn at the same time, somehow pulling it over your head and spin out. Not sure how well that would work, but it might be worth a try.
BTW, I’m not sure you would always have five seconds. Some people might not try to choke, but they might try to break your neck. In that case, you might only have a second or so to react.
Now I haven’t been able to try this yet since I have only been doing Krav for about 2 months. But I am glad to see you liked the idea! I hope this move of the week idea works out.
Thanks.
just an idea for the scenario presented by FFDO with your partner (260 lbs) on top of you with his knee in your back and a belt or rope around your neck. from that position, in order to turn around quickly and in effect eliminate the choke you can try \”helicoptering\” your legs kind of like you would see a break dancer do. the momentum from doing that would turn you into your partner pretty quickly and allow you to turn the tables and go to work on him.
I would add a disclaimer about letting your training partner try to kill you with a mechanical enhancer to the windpipe…
I was thinking about something like this the other day- against a rope/garrote from behind, my reaction might be to take out my knife and try to cut the rope, but then I figured that that would be a bad idea- putting a knife to my own neck while struggling with an opponent behind me. A better solution would be flailing it backwards towards the face/neck or if standing hammering it towards the groin/thighs (if someone is trying to garrote you, there’s no holds barred). I might even do the same thing with the knife still folded. If someone’s behind you with their knee in your back while you’re sitting and they’re kneeling (the classical jujutsu way to apply a rear naked choke hold) and he’s bigger and really applying force, you’ll be hard pressed to find an easy way out. In Nick D’s scenario of helicoptering the legs to turn around, you’d have to be careful if they had a \”cutting\” garrote- you might exsanguinate yourself.
There’s an interesting garrote web page here:
http://www.donrearic.com/thegarrotte.html
Don Rearic’s site is a good resource for krav people, I think. It gives a good view of the armed perspective- knives, flashlights, pocket sticks, canes, street weapons etc. I don’t agree with everything he says, but its still a wealth of info.So, is the move starting with in a neutral stance with the attacker behind you? Or are you on the ground with the attacker ontop of you? I would guess that it should start standing.
Maybe attacking tward your target by stepping backwards into him. From there you may be able to a) drop your weight and throw him over your shoulder b) turn into him and begin combatives.
A variation of choke with a push may work if you can get your arm between the rope/belt as you turn which would place the belt around your chest instead of neck.
Well… I just cannot help but say this – if the attacker knows what he’s doing… well, I hope you have chosen a tree to grow on your grave and also told someone which one that would be.
When done w/a keychain or wire or… this attack is just SO Deadly.
Sussanah is completely right- if the opponent gets the drop on you and secures a good garrote, you’re probably out of luck. The worst way to be garroted goes like this- the opponent sneaks up behind you with the rope/belt/piano wire etc, and throws it over your head. He then puts his back to yours and bends forward at the waist, bending you backwards and ideally lifting you off the ground. If he gets to this stage, the only thing you could do is rotate left or right, and in all reality that probably wouldn’t work unless you could somehow hook your leg around his for a foothold. His body targets are turned away from you, high and low. If you’re in this position, you better have a gun. But the worst thing about this position is that you’ll get strangled really fast (I’ve read that with a thin wire garrote, there could be a decapitation). You’ve got to keep yourself from being torqued backwards in the first place.
I guess situational awareness is key in this one. Don’t let the crazy guy with the wire sneak up on you, at very least hit him before he gets a chance to put that wire around your neck. Once he has you hanging on his back, it’s probably way too late to attempt a defense.
Hey, I just remember, I think we actually do have some type of defense for that situation. Or was it that the defender ended up catching the bad guy in that move (rope around his neck and then turning, hanging him on his back). All I remember is that we did that move before and practiced that hanging thing, having the person, who was hung in that way place his/her hands in between the rope and the neck, so he/she wouldn’t be strangled for real. Or was that actually the defense for it? Damn, this was probably months (or years) ago that I’ve last seen it and I can’t really remember it. John, what on Earth am I thinking of?
OK
A few caveats.
First, ìTry to kill me but I can tap out and if I am not moving, try to bring me backÖ..î Also, I only train at that level this way with people that have the same attitude as I do.
Susie, sorry, couldnít help but Americanize your name, please donít kick my A$$…. I know the routine with a piano wire and if done right, head flies one way body slumpsÖ.. Not much you can do IF you let it happen. BTW, are you new to the post? And are you the really pretty Scandinavian instructor that is in the brochures in Israel??????
GiantÖ. The chin tuck is done IF you catch this before it is around your neck. Like an arm-bar choke from the rear, you shouldnít allow it to happen, so tuck and turn. If you are sleeping etc etc etc, then you use the KM defense. (Most defenses work VERY well if you use them before the full attack has happened btw.) I donít think you will have time to figure out which side of the rope is on top. And see Susieís reply about the not having three seconds.
JC
We practically never work on rope defenses. I know that putting your hands in between the rope and your neck would be a defense if you see the rope coming, but it’s too late to avoid it being thrown over your head. I just remember that once we actually practiced this hanging on the back thing. Where the rope is put around the neck, then the attacker turns, bends over and you are hanging from his back with the rope around your neck. I just don’t remember exactly what we practiced when we did this. Maybe just the attack, or defending by putting the arms in between the rope and the neck. Hmmmm…. It wasn’t just a \”regular\” strangling attack, but this specific one. Anyway, maybe we’ll practice it again sometime, then I’ll pay extra close attention!
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