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Re: My first class and have some basic questions
@ MDeane – I agree. I guess I didn’t do a very good job of it but I was trying to say that For Me, “video friendly” techniques such as pressure points, pain compliance type techniques, joint manipulations (where I’m Not immediately tearing or breaking), etc are valid tools/options but only have limited applicability or smaller windows of opportunity. Some other instances besides dumb resistive drunks off the top of my head, very young or old subjects/suspects, handcuffed persons, team takedowns, passive protesters, etc…
Re: My first class and have some basic questions
Thats why we call it a tool box, when its time to do demo work sometimes you just need a sledge hammer.
Re: My first class and have some basic questions
quote Don:@ MDeane – I agree. I guess I didn’t do a very good job of it but I was trying to say that For Me, “video friendly” techniques such as pressure points, pain compliance type techniques, joint manipulations (where I’m Not immediately tearing or breaking), etc are valid tools/options but only have limited applicability or smaller windows of opportunity. Some other instances besides dumb resistive drunks off the top of my head, very young or old subjects/suspects, handcuffed persons, team takedowns, passive protesters, etc…I wasn’t trying to say your post wasn’t informative, if it came across that way. It just seemed like the OP thinks that pressure points and joint manipulations are all he’ll need to learn to be a registered BAMF, and as we’ve all said, that isn’t the case.
Also, yeah, it becomes difficult to explain why you and your partner just beat the hell out of 9 year old Timmy and his 90 year old great granny at a treehugger convention after handcuffing them. I guess that’s where the pressure points and ‘soft’ techniques come in.
Re: My first class and have some basic questions
Forget soft techniques. The assailant isn’t going to be using them on you, why should they be afforded the luxury of you using it on them?
Get in, get out, stay alive!
-Shipwreck
Re: My first class and have some basic questions
Wow, I didnt expect so many further responses when I checked this morning but I guess the U.S are a few hours behind me on the other side of the pond. It’s great also to see such an active KM message board as I struggled to find many.
Anyhow, thanks for the really interesting responses and I already have David Khans DVD set on my radar and it was good to know that cavaliers are more prevalent at graduate level (thanks bear34).
It seems to be the general conclusion as per MDEANUSCG’s post that the approach should be “when force has been decided, it must be 100%, quick, and intense” so I will keep that in mind and will follow Don’s approach for more “very young or old subjects/suspects, handcuffed persons, team takedowns, passive protesters, etc…“
As I thought previously and what the previous posts seem to agree with is that it’s very much situational as to what the correct response should be so quick analysis will be very important I guess.
I will put the BAMF comment down to misinterpretation over the internet as if anything I think my restraint questions make me less of a BAMF then if I was suggesting kicking\punching in the nuts.
I will probably be back to pester you with more questions as my training progresses…
Thanks everyone for the inputRe: My first class and have some basic questions
Go for the nuts and end the fight early before he has time to bring other weapons or friends to bear on you. There is no need, nor is it “honorable”, to stay and fight everybody who wants to involve themselves. If you can’t get away from the fight, get the fight over and then get away. The goals are to avoid conflict, avoid escalating conflict, survive conflict and escape from conflict. You don’t even need to necessarily incapacitate your assailant to survive and escape; knocking him down could present you with the opportunity to run that you’ve been looking for. If they didn’t see what car you arrived in and they’re right behind you, just keep running and call the cops; come back for your car with them.
Re: My first class and have some basic questions
Couldn’t put it better myself TacticalTimmy. Sometimes using what may be considered a more aggressive response to an assault is the best solution to keep all parties safer.
For example, as a LEO, my use of force continuum places our pepper spray at level 4, along with general combatives, and places pressure points and joint manipulation at level 3. I have to consider what is going to be the most effective way to control the situation. If I believe that by trying to use a joint manipulation or pressure point, the subject could get combative and force me to up the level of force, then I may opt to jump up a level to OC spray, which I can employ at a distance. By doing that, I may have just prevented a drawn out hands on fight that could cause me to use my baton, or possibly even use deadly force if it got that bad. So the subject comes out of it with 45 minutes of pain and suffering, but no broken bones, and I go home.In short, sometimes a higher level of force can actually prevent the need to use even more force.
Re: My first class and have some basic questions
Celtic, don’t forget that very young or old subjects/suspects, handcuffed persons, people being taken down by a group of LEOs, etal can still be highly assaultive and/or lethal threats. Even a passive or cooperative person can suddenly and without warning change into an “evil jack in the box”. Don’t underestimate an opponent due to physical appearances or characteristics (young, old, male, female, big, little, skinny, fat, tattoos, clean shaven, nice clothes, well-spoken, ebonic, wheelchair, prosthetics, ETC).
For us in LE, here is a corollary to what MDeane’s last sentence above – Hesitation to use force and/or using too little force can get you and your partners seriously hurt or killed.
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