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Ouch.
rofl2I have found new and interesting ways that my body does NOT bend.
But great stuff. I can see where my Krav training has really helped me develope the conditioning needed to make it through my 1 hour Krav class and then another 2 hour Hiraido session 3 days a week. Only thing I need to remember is to not two hand choke my opponent while we’re grappling….hehehe.Re: My Hiraido update
Oh, and while I’m talking Hiraido, I ran across an interesting issue during training. In Krav, we’re taught to punch quick, rotate, using a slight angle to the fist, so as to avoid puncher’s breaks. The first two knuckles should be the major point of impact, and the bones act as a sort of straight reinforcement line, extending from the wrist to the shoulder. While punching in Hiraido I was told to angle my fist to a different position- almost straight- still keeping the first two knuckles as impact points, and rotating not only hips, but to also extend shoulders, while punching.
Does this sound right?
I tried to discuss the difference with my Hiraido instructor, but honestly, he seemed a little disdainful and dismissive towards the Krav way, so I declined to press my concern. But I know some of you guys have trained in MMA as well and maybe you can give me some insight on the difference.Re: My Hiraido update
Hi Nick.
As someone who’s trained in other disciplines, yes, the punches do look a bit different, depending on the overall philosophy of the system. Hiraido clearly sounds Japanese, and if it’s like it’s Japanese cousins like Okinawan Karate (for example), the punches use a pinky-down approach.
But be mindful of the fight stance used to employ that strike. Do they pivot on it? My guess would be no. Notice how they require your upper body to be positioned along with the weight distribution versus the Krav technique. I’m also using my experience in Korean styles for my explanation, given that this is my TMA experience. There’s key reasons why our stances (and therefore, punches) propel us towards our attacker.
We know that if we turn our hands parallel to the ground for a punch (palm down), our elbows go up, and creating that gap in our body creates a subtle ‘telegraph’ that a punch is coming. If we leave the hand vertical (pinky down) when we punch, we lose an opportunity to add torque to the punch. There are systemic differences to why we ask our students to punch a certain way, given the altercations we train for, compared to the Hiraido students. We’re not necessarily better, we just have a different approach to solving that problem.
As for the instructor being dismissive of Krav, that’s probably okay in the context of that class. The objective of the Master there in class isn’t the same as Krav. I’ve seen you on the boards for a while, Nick, so I know this will come as no surprise: Just respect what it is you’re learning in the complementary discipline, and see if any of it can help out your Krav training. 🙂
In either case, it’s always good to learn why other systems operate the way they do.
Have a great weekend.
Mario
Re: My Hiraido update
Mario,
Thanks for the response. And, yes, I was really careful about inadvertantly insulting the instructor by coming off as if I was arguing the difference. My concern really stems from the fact that this class is being taught primarily for MMA fighting, and I was wondering if that was why he was saying to keep the fist nearly straight up and down as opposed to the Krav method.
A lot of the stance stuff is no issue, because it almost mirrors my previous boxing training. The pivot comes from the hips and the shoulder is supposed to extend out at the same time. Of course, that’s a little diffferent from the Krav method, but still teaches to aim past the target in terms of force. And the telgraph was one of my major concerns as well. With the Krav punch, there’s virtually (if you’re doing it correctly) no telegraphing involved.Re: My Hiraido update
Hey Nick.
From am MMA perspective, I’d postulate that the hand being vertical (i.e. pinky down) makes it easier for the fighter to keep his elbows down, and by inference, closer to the body.
Thoughts?
Mario
Re: My Hiraido update
Had to finally give up the class. It just wasn’t any fun. The instructor was definitely giving off the “what the hell are you doing in my class” kind of vibe. He wasn’t doing much to help me learn the techniques, but made sure to spend lots of time with all the other guys…who just happened to be around his own age. He didn’t smile. No joking allowed. There just wasn’t any sense of family to the group, at least I never felt it.
And at first I thought maybe it was me being self conscious about my age. But last night I rolled with the Brazilian Jujitsu guys and it was a whole different story. Complete and utter respect, smiles and bows, and a hard workout that didn’t seem like a workout at all. Of course, my body tells me different today. HA! Everyone, from the oldest to the youngest in the class, helped me learn the techniques. Huge contrast in how I felt after just a few classes of Hiraido and how I feel about last night’s BJJ action.
The Hiraido thing was just plain disappointing, though. I went in with the highest expectations and the intention of really trying to learn everything as perfectly as possible. But how the hell can you do that if the instructor, for whatever reason, seems to have already discounted you as a lost cause?
Anyone else ever run into this age discrimination thing in other classes?
I know some of this comes from these guys were MMA hopefuls and I’ve heard they tend to have a sort of cocky attitude vs. other disciplines.
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