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OK – Here’s the deal … We were all brand new once – In fact, I still consider myself fairly new, but I train frequently and am pleased with my progress …
Anyway, I continue to do level one classes in addition to my higher level training, and I’d like suggestions on dealing with new folks who predominately, because of lack of experience, and maybe lack of athleticism with some, are almost wild in their execution of techniques and combatives. Recently I’ve been kicked in the mouth (over a kick shield doing DEFENSIVE front kicks), poked in the eye and scratched (someone plucking my front choke 😕 Donít ask, I have no idea …), elbowed, kneed, bitten, stabbed, shot, run over and set on fire 😯 … (OK, maybe I’m exaggerating a little bit 😆 ).
The last thing I would want to do is stifle these guys and gals aggression and spirit. I don’t mind telling people I’ve trained with before if they’re going too hard or getting sloppy, and the same goes if I’m working \”one on one\” with someone new (it’s easy to say something like \”slow down until you’re comfotable with the technique\”), but I’m less comfortable approaching newer students during drills when for example, half the class has just done an exhaustion drill and pad holders are now randomly attacking \”the exhausted\” … Also, it doesn’t feel right to go to the instructor with it and \”tell on them,\” no matter how great he / she is as a mentor / trainer, friend or otherwise (you reading? 😉 ) …
I’m really not trying to be critical, and who knows, I may have been the same way when I started and just not realized it …
Any thoughts??? Love to hear from newer students too!!! How should I approach you (if at all)?
I feel bad because last night a guy was doing the defense for a rear choke with a push and he was so wild he threw his head into my elbow and gave himself a bruise. I could tell it hurt but I was just basically standing still.
My point is that a focus on technique is important to protect not only your classmate but yourself!
If things are getting out of hand, I think you SHOULD explain to the new student that we all have jobs, and must be at work the next day. Moreover, the training that is being done is for the technique and getting very comfortable with those techniques in any situation. But techniques such as ours, while relatively easy to learn early on, still need to be practiced slowly until the form is correct and the damage of combatives can be maximized. I explain to new students that while we’re there to learn, if one of us is hurt due to carelessness, we surely will not learn much from a hospital bed. 😉
Secondly, if this becomes habitual with SOME new students, use the Bas Rutten explaination…….if you hit me again \”I will break you\”! 😈
Hooray! NetNanny finally allows me to get back to the forums at work.
My usual response to someone who is missing some control is to recommend they try going a little slower to get the accuracy and motion down, then start working for speed.
I am also a big proponent of trimming finger nails.
Please, think of the children and trim those nails! 😀
I also train in level one as well as level two. I have been sctatched on the soft part right below my eye, elbowed in the head, kneed in the face, etc…
90% of the time it is a noob who hurts me…sometimes it is an experianced person who is havng trouble that night. If my spidey sense tells me to watch out, I tell them to go really slow, and work on technique. I get lit up sparing sometimes, most of the time it is an accident. Sometimes it is someone being a jaskass. I actually got the muscles in my neck pulled when some genius put me in a gillotene choke!! Later that night I had one of the tkd guys in the class put a heal in my face!! I try not to lose my temper, but it is hard. Sparing = fighting!?
I too have experienced a few new students that were too aggressive for a beginner and out of control. I usually tell them to slow up a little until they get a little more experience in the techniques and can master their control a bit better.
However, in most cases, I’ve found new students to not be aggressive enough. Meaning they are often very soft in applying a technique. Front choke for example: When they are the attacker, they often slowly reach for the throat and grab it very loosly – you could pluck their hands away with your little finger. I tell them to choke me like you mean it – look mean, lunge and grab me and put some force into the choke. They usually always say \”but I don’t want to hurt anybody\”. I tell them don’t worry, if you hurt me it is my fault not yours because I failed to apply the defense correctly.
When reversed, me choking them, they often apply a slow, soft pluck and slow kick to groin. I tell them to defend like they are fighting for their life.
I definitely agree on the nail cutting. Control can take some time to learn, and accidents do happen at the beginner stage, but there is no excuse for being scratched by someone with long nails in class.
Kravjeff, not that this will solve all your problems…but have you tried tucking your chin? It’s not immediately instinctive, but a lot of face/head mishaps I see from lack of control also come because the \”attacker\” (person who got hit) is leaning their head back, yet starting from a choke position, which doesn’t allow the leaning back to really carry you out of range.
That’s a good point, always brace yourself for impact. I usually try to tuck my chin, also remember to keep my mouth closed (so I don’t accidently bite my tongue if I get hit while not wearing a mouth piece), tighten my muscles etc, always assuming that it’s possible to accidently get hit. I’ve gotten hit many times, but most of the times, because of my safety precautions, it wasn’t all that bad. If it does happen, take the opportunity to learn how to function while feeling pain. If this were a real fight, could you go on? Imagine hitting him back right away, through the pain, just for practice (of course don’t really hit him, unless you don’t like him 😉 ).
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Giantkilleri usually tell the person to slow down and be careful. like someone else said, we all have jobs to go to the next day. but on two occasions i’ve had wild people that didn’t listen so i let a few strikes \”slip\” and they calmed down quickly.
\”it doesn’t feel right to go to the instructor with it\”
IMO, you should absolutely feel comfortable talking to your instructor about it. Instructors are human like the rest of us and should be approachable. Even if they disagree with you, at least your opinions/sentiments are made apparent. Intense, aggressive, yet SAFE training is something everybody (insructors, students, general managers, etc.) strives for.
Plus, if your instructor reads this forum, they will realize you are disatisfied with a component of your training and not approaching them face-to-face, which becomes passive-aggressively awkward. 😯
So talk to James, uh…I mean your instructor about it. Your a LIII now, for God’s sake, so I’m sure your opinion counts for something.
Having been a padholder for people with little control, I’ve learned to treat pad as pieces of armor to protect my body. When I hold pads to hit, I don’t position them next to my face, etc. Position your body so you won’t get hit if the attack is wild. When I hold a kicking shield, I do so with the intention of shielding that part of my body with it. Coupled with this, you want to find ways to make the target stand out as a target. When you present it to be hit, add some energy into it that makes it a target you would deliberately attack. When you’re not using kicking shields, focus mitts, thai pads etc it can get kind of tricky. Brad M’s advice there is on target, but I don’t kniw if I’d advise someone to attack like they’re fighting for their life if their kick to my groin isn’t all out.
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quote \”La Revancha\:\”it doesn’t feel right to go to the instructor with it\”IMO, you should absolutely feel comfortable talking to your instructor about it. Instructors are human like the rest of us and should be approachable. Even if they disagree with you, at least your opinions/sentiments are made apparent. Striving for intense, aggressive, yet SAFE training is something everybody (insructors, students, general managers, etc.) strives for.
Plus, if your instructor reads this forum, they will realize you are disatisfied with a component of your training and not approaching them face-to-face, which becomes passive-aggressively awkward. 😯
So talk to James, uh…I mean your instructor about it. Your a LIII now, for God’s sake, so I’m sure your opinion counts for something.
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Heaven forbid if the instructor reads the forum, they might kick ya out of school. 😆 Sorry couldn’t resist.
Anyway, I know what ya mean but it never seemed to be the newbieís, except for them having long finger nails, but the instructor that seemed to lack control. Or the instructor just liked abusing me. 😯 I always just sucked it up and dealt with it. But like all have said we have jobs and want to make it to them so definitely say something to the person. If they don’t know, they can’t correct themselves. My .02!!!
At least in my experience!!
Thanks for the input –
La Rev: It’s not \”the\” instructor that makes me uncomfortable by any means. We have a great relationship and I’m not dissatisfied with my training in any way – I certainly didn’t mean to come across that way, I guess I should have explained better. I just felt like perhaps I should address it myself as opposed to saying \”XXX nailed me again – Can you talk to them?\” Seems pretty weak to me, so without experience as an instructor I was looking for some advice. Certainly would have felt comfortable, and could have gone to any of our instructors with the same question I posted, I just happened to be thinking about it while I was reading posts the other night. (BTW – Looking forward to meeting you in Feb – James speaks highly of you).
KravMDJeff: I always try to keep my chin tucked, etc … and stay prepared for impact – I look at pad holding, etc … as another facet of training – \”learning\” to take some impact, as well as protecting myself in case of accidental contact. Physically I’m fine with getting nailed a couple of times, in fact, I kind of enjoy it 😈 It’s more the frustration of it occuring frequently with any specific individual. In the examples I gave; I was holding a kick shield to my chest \”receiving\” defensive front kicks when POW!!! Right in the kisser!!! Wasn’t a big deal (though it knocked me on my arse) but that much lack of control can obviously be dangerous, and it wasn’t the only incident with that individual, that night. In the other when I was applying a choke and the pluck hit me in the face, there were two problems – First, my arms were fully extended, the guy was just wild in his attempt to pluck – Had he been anywhere close on the technique, it seems he should have poked himself in the eye, not me. 😕 Plus the same guy was just kind of flying all over the place during that drill ….
As far as the fire – I just can’t talk about that yet 😉
Anyway, thanks again everyone for the responses.
Stay safe,
J
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