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from “How to defend yourself against armed assault”
by Imi Sde-Or (Lichtenfeld), and Eyal Yanilov.Page 3
“Be modest”
Do not boast about your skill, and avoid unnecessary conflicts. Overcome your ego and control your mental state, so that they will not fail you during a confrontation.I don’t know about everybody else, but i feel like a bit of a knob with KRAV MAGA written all over me. You might as well hang a sign round your neck reading “come and have a go if you think you’re hard enough”
And I’ll be pissed off if I’m forced to wear official kit during classes, level 1 or otherwise.
I pay my fees each month for my training, and I don’t expect to get gouged for a bunch of crap I can’t wear anywhere else but the gym.
To be honest, I have enough trouble with the whole, “bow to Imi” thing.
Reminds me too much of Napoleon Dynamite, and anyway, all that kowtowing puts you in a subservient frame of mind, it makes you weak IMHO. We bow to each other at the beginning and end of class to show respect. Well I’m just a lowly Level 1, but I don’t respect anybody in class but the instructors, everybody else, I want to knock over. And I hope you all feel the same way about me because otherwise I’m not getting the training I need.Don’t get me wrong, I think the training and whole Krav system is amazing, I’d just hate to see it turned into yet another McDojo.
Re: New to KM @ NTC / Attire ?
Hi Dunc.
I usually wear my Krav gear outside class, and not just because I really like the shorts. They’re comfortable! I think the only thing I wouldn’t wear out on the streets is one Krav shirt that says “for the streets” on it. One, I don’t like the message. Two, it encourages that “come and have a go” mentality. But, since (Three), there aren’t THAT many people that know about Krav still, most often, I get questions about what it is, and it’s another opportunity to tell someone about why we feel Krav gives you the best way to become skilled at defending yourself in the shortest amount of time.
I like wearing all the other gear out & about. I mean, would you rather wear an old-school ‘gi’ everytime instead? Cause learning how to do a collar choke using a ‘gi’ is REALLY practical against people that are wearing regular T-shirts out on the street. 🙂
“bowing….makes you weak?” Don’t worry…we’ll beat that out of you eventually. lol
Bowing definitely should not be seen as putting you in a subservient frame of mind. Oh, and before I forget, there’s NO bowing to Imi. We turn and face him, and that’s all. You bow to your instructor. As instructors, we are actively ‘encouraged’ to discourage our students’ bowing to Imi. Perhaps that ‘encouragement’ hasn’t gotten to a particular instructor, or they missed the supplemental training that month? In short, no need to bow to Imi, Napoleon….um…Dunc. 🙂
It’s okay if you want to knock everyone over in class. In my own training classes, I feel the same way. Of course, at that level, we’re all pretty happy throwing everything AND the kitchen sink at each other. But we do respect each other, even those among us at the higher levels that aren’t instructors.
However I will say that you shouldn’t equate “want to knock ’em over” with not respecting them. If you’re right, and your fellow students feel the same way, then you have to be wise about how you engage, once you start doing some fighting in Level 2. You can’t just bull your way in, as that’s a sure way to eat something unpleasant. Not respecting your training partner is the surest way to walk out of a class with something injured.
On your final comment, feel free to ask any instructor (NTC, Sherman Oaks, or Simi – I don’t know where you train at here in town) about what we have to go through to get certified just to teach Level ONE and you’ll understand why Krav won’t turn into a McDoJo.
If you’re at Sherman Oaks, come on up to me and let’s chat. I’d be happy to listen to your concerns and questions. They seem very reasonable, and as with my fellow instructors here on the forum and in the LA schools, we’re always happy to talk to our students and answer questions and concerns.
Have a great weekend, Dunc, and train hard!
Mario
Re: New to KM @ NTC / Attire ?
Well, Mario already covered your issue with bowing to Imi. And it does seem to go instructor by instructor. I have been told that you are just to turn around and face him to acknowledge Imi. I was also told that he personally did not care for that, but that we have chosen to follow that practice anyway. I have had some instructors still say “bow” (although it isn’t an order). I also think some people who have previous Martial Arts experience (which I have none) do so out of habit.
I understand (and have had it conveyed) that we bow to our instructors and they bow to us to honor us for taking the time to learn to defend ourselves. I can’t say that I have ever seen or taken part of bowing to each other.
I hope you are just making a strong statement and don’t really carry that lack of respect for classmates. Personally, I count on my classmates for a lot. I have a respect for them and their safety that makes me need to choke them, put them in a strong headlock, and put a serious bearhug on them to carry them to my car. I also need them to do the same to me. Now, if you are equating “respect” for admiring…I don’t know. But there is definitely a level of respect. Oh, and there isn’t a fee for partners. There is no rule that someone has to partner up with you. I am thankful to have someone hold pads for me, to hit me in the head should I drop my hands, and to choke me enough to scare me into using my techniques by muscle memory from training over and over again. And I respect them for bearing with me going over techniques that I should be able to repeat time and time again that I just keep messing up and have to refine. I respect them for standing in front of me straight up without leaning forward so that I have to pull them in tight and bring the full force of my knee into their midsection which is protected by just 5 inches of foam while I swing them around and continue. I respect them for hitting me in the chin or mouth when I am too slow or stupid to do my inside defense (instead of punching off the side of my face so they don’t accidentally hit me). Instructors run the class. They keep it moving and teach you. Your classmates really make the class. You get limited (enough but limited) direct time with your instructor during class. You work constantly with your training partner for the class. They define each class. A really bad partner can completely ruin a class. And by that, I mean someone who really doesn’t want to be there, isn’t really making much effort. Great partners make great classes. We are usually lucky in getting great partners.
Dave
Re: New to KM @ NTC / Attire ?
hello everyone, and thank you for a couple of cogent and well considered replies. (which i didn’t entirely finish reading before i started this. but have now)
you’re both right, we’re told to face Imi not bow, people seem to do a bit of bowing independently, so I stand corrected. sorry.
I still think it’s not really in the spirit of KM (i go to NTC BTW), but there you go.
DKatman, we agree entirely.
I don’t want to give the wrong impression of my attitude to my fellow classmates. I have a lot of fun with each of my partners every day, and actually, my respect for them is the same respect i’d give any fellow human. here we are, 2 people having fun.but my job in class is also to be as realistic an attacker as possible. if the instructor tells me to aim a “loose” fist at the head for inside blocking practice, I will be aiming to hit you. same with 360 defence, you’ll be wanting a real aggressor, not a pussy coming at you. it’s so easy to fall into the practice of aiming either side of the target, which is worse than not training at all. if I’m putting strikes onto the pads, i expect to be forcing my partner back into the mirror. and i will be looking you in the eye when i do this.
after class, me and my various partners have so far always congratulated each other on a good session, and I’m really glad of the friendship.
my point really is that after all that, surely bowing is unnecessary.
same is true for the instructors, my respect for them is given by my attentive attitude in class, my commitment, and my desire to be a good student.
i guess that my real problems are:
1. the ritualisation of something which should have no rituals.
2. overcommercialisation.
3. a tendency to open my big mouth a bit too much. (on forums)once again, thanks for the replies, and i hope to meet you both someday.
I’m the fat sweaty Brit.dunc
more wag,
less bark.Re: New to KM @ NTC / Attire ?
Hi Dunc, welcome to the forums I’ll get back to you in a minute.
Mario – Well said always the calm voice of reason.
Dave – nicely unraveled and articulated.
Now back to our new friend from over the pond.
I actually say “turn and pay your respects to Imi the founder of the system, and turn to me” I don’t say bow or anything else other then that.
As far as wearing krav shirts LOL I own a ton of them and they are always on top in the drawer what can I say I’m lazy.
I applaud your enthusiasm and wish to train hard the one thing I would mention is especially at NTC be careful who you decide you need to go hard against you never know what high level student or instructor might have snuck into your L1 class just as a tune up. When you get into L2/3 and things go up a notch you might want to rethink your strategy.
I might be your training partner. 🙂Re: New to KM @ NTC / Attire ?
“I might be your training partner. :)”
OMG – Exactly. You just NEVER know. One time in our 3/4/5 class we were doing ground defenses with our instructor Michael. We thought we were just gonna work with each other. Um, NO – we each rotated in with HIM. He’s done MMA and OMG – his friggin legs were like vice grips. Working with HIM – I was sore for 2 whole days but hey I survived:D:
I also agree on NOT assuming anything about your training partner unless you train with them regularly. You never know who ya gonna get:beer:
Re: New to KM @ NTC / Attire ?
If I ever make it to Sherman Oaks, I’m going to put in my signature that I survived CJ’s Dad! Then again it may be premature to assume that I survive.
P.S. This is my hundreth post! Once again proving not that I have much of worth to say about KM, but that I sort of know how to type.
Re: New to KM @ NTC / Attire ?
I tried to add this in to the other post but there’s some weird thing where you can only edit your post for 10 minutes after posting.
Welcome, Dunc. I hope you continue to enjoy things. I actually never bow in class. I just bend over repeatedly and respectfully to check the instructor’s hands closely to see if they have Ryan’s “Tazer Knife”…. There are few things in life that have focused my attention as rapidly as that thing has during the few times it was within 10 feet of me. Honestly though, bowing is not a big deal for me. It’s a generally acnowledged way to show respect to another person (pretty much across the board with combat arts/sports). I’m not groveling at all. I’m honoring my teachers for the effort they’re putting into me. It’s not neccesarily a ritual. It’s more of an easy and convenient way to express that gratitude non-verbally. Honestly, there’s some times that I can’t even talk for a while after class anyway due to the workout. 😛 Good luck to you.
Re: New to KM @ NTC / Attire ?
Dunc, nice posts, and great responses from all. Your concerns are good but I think will diminish over time.
You will find like minded people that prefer to train hard, and maybe others that just don’t want to go at it so much. You instructor will help to coax the “softies” along, and you can too. It’s to everyone’s benefit because we never know when or if we’ll have to use our training.
CJs Dad made me think of my first sparring night, I was a little excited and was harking back to my long ago days of boxing.
So I ripped off a few jabs to show people how tough I was, and quickly got a bloody nose and stars dancing in my head as rewards.
Our classmates come from all kinds of backgrounds, law enforcement, military, karate, so forth, you just can’t always tell by looking at them, but they let me know that time what they were about.
Re: New to KM @ NTC / Attire ?
quote Jesse:If I ever make it to Sherman Oaks, I’m going to put in my signature that I survived CJ’s Dad! Then again it may be premature to assume that I survive.God am I that bad? LOL
Hey DK looks like you got something to add to your sig 🙂
In all seriousness I had a student who thought he could fight drill me twice in class. My hands were down no mouth piece and I was talking next thing I know BAM. Split my lip open the whole nine yards. It didn’t go so well for him.
Re: New to KM @ NTC / Attire ?
quote dunc:but my job in class is also to be as realistic an attacker as possible. if the instructor tells me to aim a “loose” fist at the head for inside blocking practice, I will be aiming to hit you. same with 360 defence, you’ll be wanting a real aggressor, not a pussy coming at you. it’s so easy to fall into the practice of aiming either side of the target, which is worse than not training at all. if I’m putting strikes onto the pads, i expect to be forcing my partner back into the mirror. and i will be looking you in the eye when i do this.its great that you have the intensity and the aggression that we as an instructor would like to see ALL students have or develop.
Now with that said, sometimes trying to be a “Real attacker” goes bit far with some people. When you are doing a drill where the objective is to learn the movement, you need to be a good partner and help your partner even if that means you slow down and take it a bit easy. to me there’s nothing worst than having a partner that just want to be an AS***** and always tries to screw you by showing me that he is mr.tuff and that my defense doesn’t work on him.
Yes we are training for realistic situations and we should all practice under pressure and be aggressive but there is a fine line between being aggressive and being just a horrible partner that doesn’t get the difference between the two. Same goes in sparring.
Remember that when your working with a partner…. the word “PARTNER” should mean something.
Re: New to KM @ NTC / Attire ?
Thank you for the advice and explanation everybody.
You’re definitely chilling me out.
I hope i get to meet all of you someday, hopefully I will still have a head full of English teeth afterwards.
I understand the dress code during classes should mirror the way you could expect to be dressed during a confrontation, so I’d like alert you all to the fact that last time I disturbed an intruder in my house, I was naked.
You have been warned.
dunc
more wag,
less bark.Re: New to KM @ NTC / Attire ?
hi james,
Oh I start off slow first, but I’ll get there in the end.
But I’ll go on record now and say that I’m available for anybody bigger, and better than me to partner. (Bigger is one thing, but better should be an easy position to fill.)
I’ll be easy to spot, please see my previous.
all the best
dunc.
dunc
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