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I spend a lot of time studying the psych behind fighting and attacks. I just finished the book, \”On Killing\” by Grossman I think.
Anyway, I have seen a lot of threads on group dynamics and attacks in general on here and this book goes into a lot of the details on the mindsets that causes them. While its mostly a study of military psych, most of it applies on the street as well. I am not ‘advertising’ the book and have nothing to do with it but found it very interesting on the psych of attacks.
JC
A lot of Grossman’s stuff was based on erroneous assumptions or just wrong information. I’m not saying it’s all bad, but much of it is. If you’re inclined, this is an interesting read: http://www.theppsc.org/Grossman/Main-R.htm.
That said, I hear he is a great speaker. I’d just do a bit of my own research in conjunction with his.
I need that link again. It won’t come up when I click on it.
I have been to a Grossman seminar and will say he is a great speaker. He has many valid points on the Survival Mindset. Maybe his numbers are off a little, (I have heard this too) but some of his lessons are very valid. I can say this that if you can get it on tape or CD it is worth listening to.
His other big angle is the violent video games. Again many potent points but I had to wonder myself about his theory.
Badge54
Yeah, The numbers would be a hard thing to get right given where they have to come from. I did agree with the general assumptions though. Especially on the posturing and submiting being added to the fight or flight model. I would generally agree with the video game ideas, but am not so sure Bugs Bunny / Roadrunner has turned me into a sociopath, yet……
JC
I’ve read the book a few times, although it has been a few years since the last time.
The way that he develops his theory is quite thought provoking. It is complete, considering a comprehensive set of variables and conditions, while remaining relatively simple. Wonderful scholarship.
Unfortunately when he starts to discuss the impact of the media and resulting violence in American society, he tend to not let facts get in the way of his argument.
IMO, his theory is outstanding but the application to his lobbying efforts is weak.
I just recently read \”On Killing\” and I thought the book was very insightful and truely progressive since much of what he accumalated has never been done before. It also hits home for me since my uncle, whom I am close with, was special forces in Vietnam. I also lived with him for a short period of time and I watched and listened as I realized the effects that war still has on him. I know all veterans of war have issues with what they saw and had to do, but it seems that Vietnam Vets have never had access to the \”closure\” that veterans of other wars have had. There are also many facts in this book that can be verified in other sources, such as the limited number of people actually willing to fire their weapons at their enemy in an attempt to kill them and in many wars most of the people who were killed were running away from the battle and had their backs turned to the enemy. Lt. Col. Grossman addressed many issues that affect our society and he found several relelvant examples. Case in point….The perpetrators of the Columbine massacre watched \”Natural Born Killers\” every day for months leading up to this horrific tradgedy. In fact, this movie was very popular among perpetrators of several violent acts in public schools. This is only one example but I believe there is as much a connection between what we \”digest\” visually and audibly affects our mental health as much as what we digest nutritionally affects our physical health.
I am also looking forward to reading \”On Combat\” since it does apply more towards Law Enforcement. Also, especially for females, I highly recommend Gavin DeBecker’s \”The Gift of Fear\”.\”There are also many facts in this book that can be verified in other sources, such as the limited number of people actually willing to fire their weapons at their enemy in an attempt to kill them and in many wars most of the people who were killed were running away from the battle and had their backs turned to the enemy.\”
What are those other sources? I’d like to peruse them.
I’m sorry, but to shift responsibility to media is just crap. I’m so tired of everyone today looking to lay the blame on someone else. This is one of the biggest \”problems\” in America today–the \”blame everybody else\” mentality–I wasn’t held enough as a child. The bartender shouldn’t have let me drink that much. The coffee was hot…enough already!
Re:
quote \”dugfoot\:Also, especially for females, I highly recommend Gavin DeBecker’s \”The Gift of Fear\”.A good read, despite your gender. Can be recommended.
One of many sources I’ve read is \”Extreme War\” by Terrence Poulos. Some of what Lt. Col. Grossman discusses is also talked about in this book. Another one is \”Extreme Evil; Kids Killing Kids\” by Bob Larson.
As far as the media goes, I also hold people responsible for their own actions but at the same time someone who is continuously exposed to negative and/or violent behavior ends up, in alot of cases, exhibiting this kind of behavior.
1st case in point…I’ve been to several Toughman and MMA events and have enjoyed watching and participating in them. At the same time I have seen the mob mentality where 1 or 2 fights start in the crowd after most of the matches are over and a few in the audience are boozed up. Next thing you know there 50 or more people fighting. This is why the fairgrounds in the county where I lived no longer allows such events. This happened 4 different times over a 5 year period. I have also been to other venues and events in different cities and have seen this behavior repeated. Also one of the businesses in our city that serves alcohol has a nationwide policy that they will not show boxing or other similiar events because of the fighting among patrons. Since this is a nationwide policy I know that it must be a common occurence. While alcohol does play a small part, uncontrolled and repeated exposure to violence can and does affect the psyche of many people.
2nd point…In my experience in law enforcement I repeatedly see violent teens who like to continuously listen to \”gangsta\” music that glorify violence and the criminal culture. On the flip side, during some training on hate groups, I watched a video of a white supremest teaching the children whose families belong to their \”ideology\” how to do the nazi salute and indoctrinating them to violence and hate against what they view as inferior life forms. Someone continuously exposed to hate, violence and conditional love based on the hate and violence (i.e. gangs, hate groups)ends up living that lifestyle. \”The Gift of Fear\” book also discusses this.
When I first stated in law enforcement I thought these type of cases would be few and far between, but unfortunately it is more prevailant that what alot a people realize. Just look at our prison systems. It’s one of the fastest growing industries.
Before I finish, let me repeat myself, I believe everyone is responsible for their own actions…Period!!!! Also, I am not against MMA, boxing, kickboxing, or similiar events.
I do believe we each have a responsibility to monitor and even sensor what our children are exposed to until they have the necessary maturity level to be able to understand what they are seeing and hearing. This is our responsibility as parents and mentors. I think this is the main theme of what Lt. Col. Grossman ia saying in the part where he discusses media impact.
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