Question

[sabashimon]

I have a question for all you KM vets.
I’ve been trying out a couple of different classes, and though the one closest to me, thus more convenient and thus more likely I’d be able to go more than once a week, seems like a good choice, I question (blasphemy!:OhMy:) one aspect of it.
In an hour class, the first 15-20 minutes are devoted to kicking your (my) ass on cardiovascular exercises. I felt like I was back in basic training.
I’m not planning on going 10 three minute rounds in a fight, and would prefer spending more time learning technique.
Now, I’m not downplaying the need to be in shape, and I work on that, but it seems to be given too much emphasis here. (unlike another class I tried and enjoyed….but too far from home)
I’d love you’re input.
Thanks in advance
Shimon

[giant-killer]

Re: Question

I personally don’t like too much workout in a KM class. I’m like you, I enjoy using the time to work on technique or KM related drills. Cardio can just as well be done at home or other gyms. Being in shape is important, though, so some of it may make sense. But if you only have a few hours of KM class a week (or just one or two), better to spend it on KM techniques than crunches or push-ups in my opinion. So, maybe 10 minutes warm-up is about right, 20 minutes seems like a bit too much.

_________________
Giantkiller

[vwr32]

Re: Question

It’s definitely not blasphemy… I think a lot of people re-think Krav during those first few introductions. “WTF am I doing?… When will it stop?…. Holy crap I’m gonna die!”

When I first started, I liked that aspect of it because I was looking to improve cardio. When people would ask me “What is Krav?”, I would say something like “It’s a fitness program that is masquerading as a self-defense program.”

I was too new to know better.

It does start to make sense the longer you train, and it does get easier as your conditioning improves. While I know the fatigue during class is aimed to put you under stress before training, the immediate result is that you see yourself in a completely different category from those practicing nice and slowly in an air conditioned McDojo. In a real situation, my money would go on any level one krav student vs someone who has spent a much longer time in a traditional martial art. A friend of mine is a black belt in the weeping willow style (or so he says) but is so out of shape I’m surprised he has the energy to drive to the fast food window everyday. But he thinks he’s quite tough.

Krav isn’t for everyone, and I’m not saying it’s any better than other practices. Level two drops some of the “butt-kicking” in favor of more technique, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s easy. For me, the “pain” I go thru in class is sort of a badge of honor. I know not everyone can do it.

I turn 40 this month. Looking back at basic training, I’d probably say I’m in better shape now and a large part of that is trying to become healthy enough just to make it thru those level one classes. The path of least resistance just wouldn’t have had the same impact on me. I hope you hang in there. thumbsup

[dirtyhippieute]

Re: Question

I’m no “vet” by any stretch of the imagination but I did have the same question when I started KM. I talked to my KM instructor and did some other research and here is what I’ve found.

The Good…

The cardio at the beginning is a very effective warm up and goes a long way toward injury prevention. Most people don’t understand how long and how hard a warm up should be but the science shows that a good warm up is the single most significant variable in preventing training injuries (FAR more important than stretching). Mrs. Hippie did her 1st masters in exercise physiology (or “gym” as I say) and her workouts usually involve what I would consider a VERY long warm up. It seems ass backwards but there is actually good science backing up the way they do things.

Being a little worn out makes for more effective technique training. Training “cold” is good for katas and line dancing but sucks for self defense. The focus and discipline it takes to maintain form when you’re not fresh is really good for developing good habits and muscle memory.

The Bad…

Ya… It does take up a chunk of my class. I suggest talking to the instructor to find out if they do different kinds of warm up/cardio stuff. Sometimes our warm up involves some technique review.

[newkravaddict]

Re: Question

I suck at analogies and examples, but i’ll try one:

If you’ve seen Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne climbs a giant mountain to some secret temple to train. The head dude asks him if he’s ready to begin, and Bruce says, “I”m exhausted” The teacher guy then punts him in the chest and kicks his ass and says something like, “Bad guys don’t care if you’re exhausted”

Ok, that was a horrible example, but you know what i’m getting at.

I think one way to look at it, is if you can practice and learn techniques while you’re exhausted, then you’ll be fine in a real world fight. (eventually)

Anybody that’s ever been in a fight knows you’re winded after 20 seconds anyway, due to the adrenaline dump.

[unstpabl1]

Re: Question

In order to do anything you must lay a proper foundation. If you were building a house without a proper foundation all the masterful techniques of a master craftsman would come crumbling down under the smallest degree of stress.

Seeing as how fighting is a stressful endeavor and its techniques in order to be done require a large degree of strength, flexibility, and endurance, learning the techniques first would be ass backwards. Because you need to develope the fundamental conditioning first to apply them for class and then for the 360lb thug plus friends.

The martial arts have always been arduous. Why? Because your learning to push yourself and develope an indomitable fighting spirit. Your forced to face your weaknesses first then your fears And as the Thais will tell you the better conditioned Fighter wins. Self defense skills are perishable mostly due to our ability to physically sustain the activity. Because of that you have to continue to build your conditioning forever because will atrophy while your not paying attention

Anybody can collect techniques. And a lot of schools know that hardcore physical training isn’t sexy. Real schools don’t care cause they know that strength and conditioning is the one of most important attributes to develope.

Besides you may never use Krav or physical self defense ever, but you use your body daily. But Don’t take my word for it:dunno: I don’t do krav, I’m doing yoga:banghead:rofl2why cause I’m trying to lay the foundation to be able to get back to training

[alan360]

Re: Question

Pat Miletich once told me at a training:
I would rather fight a great fighter in mediocre shape than a mediocre fighter in great shape….
I know at the beginning a lot of students want to focus on technique and don’t see the point in doing conditioning, but our job as instructors is to prepare you for a fight. Part of that aspect is to be able to be in the best physical shape possible.
Let say you do train… when you look around you in the class, do you see people that, aside from training krav maga, go to the gym and do push ups/situps at home?
When we take on the challenge of teaching krav maga,we take on the challange on making that person as capable as possible to defense from all scenarios that make a self defense situation.
Maybe you will not fight for 10 minutes in a real fight… how about 30 seconds with 4 people trying to give you a beating… would that make you tired?
How about if you are sleeping and one moment later you find yourself fighting 2 intruders who are planning on raping your wife and kids… our job is to make sure you will fight as hard and for as long as it takes to get you out of that situation.
Keep training and with time it will all make sense.

[stevetuna]

Re: Question

quote alan360:

Pat Miletich once told me at a training:
I would rather fight a great fighter in mediocre shape than a mediocre fighter in great shape….

It would be hard to say it better than that!

One thing I liked about Krav Maga right out of the gate is that feeling of being pushed way beyond the comfort zone that I previously had liked to train in. As Ryan Hoover says, “Growth is in the discomfort.”

When I’m training my fellow police officers, I let them come up with examples of why it’s important to push hard. They remember the sleepy Sunday morning when Mike E. found himself on his own for five minutes, rolling around with some big and crazy drug dealer that he came upon sleeping in a car. Every one of them has a memory like that which pushes them forward.

I love that Krav Maga makes us all dig deep.

[kmman]

Re: Question

To the OP: What are the cardio drills? I like about 10 minutes cardio but that does NOT count bag work. Any bag work, which is cardio, I consider training. Therefore if you are doing some warmups, it fine.

I feel same way. I trained in JKD where 100% of the class was cardio (about 30 minutes on bags) but NO TECHNIQUE. Techniques were a different class. So only the people that strictly wanted exercise enjoyed it.

I found Krav to be the perfect fit (for me) of fitness, fun and technique. I’d say my school does about 1/3 cardio, 1/3 techniques, 1/3 bags….but everything has cardio attached.

Are you including bag work or anything else in cardio?

[nickolas-cook]

Re: Question

Cardio is an important reason why I took Krav seriously. As someone new to the whole martial arts lifestyle just four months ago, I was not in the sort of shape I needed to be in to perfect techniques, techniques that require proper, healthy breathing, balance and core strength. Every workout is a chance for me to get in better shape so I can control my breathing, my fatigue levels, my balance, and resolve the core into something that lends itself to being able to survive a real encounter.
That’s just my two cents, guys. But, again, I’m a newbie, so maybe I’m seeing with newbie eyes.

[sabashimon]

Re: Question

Thank you all for taking the time to respond, you’ve given me food for thought and provided some perspectives that make sense to me.
I’ve been pretty athletic my whole life, and have never backed away from challenges, either physical or mental, rather I have tended to look for them.
Don’t plan on changing now, so again, thank you.

[kmman]

Re: Question

General rule…dont give up until you at least pass your first test. The feeling of achievement usually makes one look back and say “it was worth it”.

[kmtakinkm]

Re: Question

I also consider warmup separate from training cardio and our warmups last ~10 minutes leaving 50 for the good stuff.

With that said, in my experience the training cardio serves three main pruposes. First, it keeps me in shape (and that is one thing that attracted me to Krav in the first place) so I feel better, look better and walk with more confidence and that ultimately makes me less of a target.

Second, it shows me my limits and that I can push thru them, which of course is helpful in a stressful situation and helps me gain confidence (and humility in some cases HA).

And finally our instructor pushes us to muscle fatigue and high heart rate so when we do techniques, gauntlets and other reaction drills it will allow us to transfer that learning into “muscle memory” and show us how it feels to react and do the technique when we are out of breath, shaking, tired, etc. This helps us become familier with ourselve, allows the instructur to point out stress related flaws in our technique that need to be addressed, and makes the reaction second nature in a fight/stress situation.

[unstpabl1]

Re: Question

quote KMMAN:

General rule…dont give up until you at least pass your first test. The feeling of achievement usually makes one look back and say “it was worth it”.

I always felt that was one of kravs strongest points…that test. You earn it and rise beyond your expectations. Like Tony robbins using the firewalk

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