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We were discussing this in class yesterday. What is the Krav Maga defense if someone came up from behind and sunk in a deep rear naked choke while standing?
We know of the defense where if someone has their arm around your neck. You would turn your chin quickly towards the attackers hands, not towards their elbow, reach back maybe scratch their eyes and pluck the arm down as you roll in with your shoulders to create room to move your head out. I just donít think that would work against the position of the arms and hands of the attacker who sinks in a deep rear naked choke.
We were talking about pulling out a folding knife and stabbing the attackerís hips and abdomen area if you had the few seconds needed to access your knife before passing out.
Thanks!
Depends on their hand / arm position. If it is a true rear naked choke the hand of the choking arm will be resting in the crook or on the bicep of their opposite arm and the hand of the opposite arm will be palm down on the back of your head pushing forward and down. If you have no weapon, you would need to reach back and grab one or more of the fingers (pinky and / or ring) of the hand that is on the back of your head. Bend the finger(s) back and pull forward until the hand is in front of you. Keep leverage on the finger(s) and create space, execute combatives, etc. That is my understanding, but I’m not an instructor, so take it with a grain of salt. Hope it helps.
If it’s sunk in, the defense is still the same. There’s not much additional you can do without weapons. Just think you have nothing to lose at that point. In a few second you’re going to go to sleep and the attacker will have their way with you. You might as well go apeshit and try anything at all.
PS. One of the major parts of the techniques is recognizing when the attack is taking place and reacting right away, so that it’s NOT sunk in deep. If you have at least one hand free and can turn your chin, the attacker should have to struggle to sink it. Use that time to fight your way out.
Bas has a good one on his Lethal Streetfighting DVD.
Grab the attacker’s arm that’s around your neck to try to make some space. Get one of your legs behind him and between his legs, grab his legs and pick him up off the ground, then slam him into the \”ambience\” – either a wall, table corner, or simply fall to the ground landing on him with all your weight.
I’d probably focus on the groin, or reach behind my head and put my thumbs in their eyes. Remember it’s not UFC or Pancrase, it’s the street.
If it’s all the way sunk in, it’s pretty hard to escape. You can do what Keith mentioned, take him to the ground (falling on him), then do the ground defense from there. Also, one of the first things you should try to do, is to see if you can grab the hand that’s behind your head and pull it off. Without that hand behind your head it will be much harder for him to choke you and it will buy you time. Then you can take him down, spin into him. There is also a potential armlock you can do, once you’ve pulled that hand off (just straighten it in front of you, over your shoulder, push down, break the arm). If you should try that, just break the arm quickly and do more combatives after that, don’t wait for him to tap or anything. 😉
Another thing I’ve heard some people do is to basically throw him (like a regular hip throw) over the top of your head, hoping he’ll let go to break his fall. That might work best for bigger people against smaller ones. Also, he might not let go, I don’t know how badly that could hurt your neck if he doesn’t.
Ive seen the Bas DVDís and the one thing I donít like about it was in a lot of his moves he always talked about picking up your attacker and slamming them on the ground. Or if someone throws a right cross, deflect the punch, grab the arm and then next thing I saw was Bas on the ground arm baring someone who threw a punch at him! I thought all of that was very anti-Krav because most of us arenít as strong as Bas, so we canít rely on picking someone up all the time. Also in Krav we donít like going to the ground unless we have to.
One thing I forgot to mention isÖ
What if weíre in the choke and with my left leg I step behind the attackers right leg, then I sit down real fast. The attacker should fall down on his back and head and my weight should land on top of him. I would end up with my back on his chest area, I could throw elbows and transition into side control.
I believe what Iím trying to describe is what Krav does for being in a full nelson while being pulled back.
fall straight back on top of him, grab both feet (they will be right below waist level) and dig your elbows in right above his knees. pull the feet towards your chest while pushing out with your elbows and blow out his knees. it hurts like hell and he will let go. hope this makes sense
Watching my instructor do the defense, it was the finger grab followed by a normal choke hold defense to the rear. None of us could make him pass out, but then, he had been in KM for 26 years……
Re: Rear naked choke defense?
What about if you do a rear naked choke hold and the target is picked up.
My friend who is a correctional officer was telling me about a tactic where the attacker would place you in a rear naked choke, but would place the hand on the BACK OF THE HEAD so you are unable to grab their hand.
What is the possible defense for this?
Re: Rear naked choke defense?
All at once:
A) Turn head and tuck chin if possible.
B) Strike to the face/eyes with both hands, and use the momentum of the recoil to try and loosen the hand on the back of your head.
C) Uppercut back kick to groin.
D) Pray.Follow up with elbows to sternum and/or groin strikes until either they let go, or you pass out. Whatever you do, don’t stop fighting. You can’t tap in a streetfight 🙂
Re: Rear naked choke defense?
I’m pretty much a newbie but I saw a defense that might work. As soon as you feel the choke you shoot your ass back (think of leaning over towards your shoes), this takes some of the leverage off and then turn so that your shoulder is facing him and use the headlock defense.
What do you guys think?
Re: Rear naked choke defense?
Shifting your body weight as you explained is definitely part of the defense I learned, except it would be more effective to get in a strike, either to the face or the groin, before doing this to soften him up.
Re: Rear naked choke defense?
Leaning forward is going to tighten the choke, so I wouldn’t recommend it. Turning into the attacker follows the general principals of the defense, though.
Re: Rear naked choke defense?
What about this:
I was also thinking of shifting your hips rapidly to one side to expose the groin.
Let me know what you guys think.
Re: Rear naked choke defense?
Interesting take on the technique. I researched the guy in the video (Gershon Ben-Keren) , and the only thing that worries me is that he has bounced from one KM organization to another, and has no affiliation at the moment. He also drops Moni’s name on his website, which is a big red flag for me as far as the quality of his style. As with anything, you should take it with a grain of salt. I would find a training partner you trust and have him sink in a quality RNC and try different escapes. Then you will have a better understanding of what to do and why.
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