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OK, this question is probably bigger than Krav skills, but I like the input people have in this forum.
What do you do if you find yourself in the middle of a riot?
For example:
In the LA riots after Rodney King, all you had to do was be white to get killed.
Right now in France, the riots there have resulted in their first casualty overnight when a man died from being beaten to death.
Obviously you cannot take on 200 attackers, so how would you handle it?
Re: Riots
Weeeeeeell, you would hope that the respective government had the ballsicles to send in big boys with big guns to quiet things down. But then, why do that when a proud history of appeasement and restraint works so well? Burn baby burn, Paris inferno.
Anyways, what to do when finding yourself in a riot is kind of like asking what to do when you find yourself near an active volcano. Run like hell.
Re: Riots
quote \”G.V.\:But then, why do that when a proud history of appeasement and restraint works so well? Burn baby burn, Paris inferno.Ah, go eat a Freedom Fry, or something.
But why do Americans seize upon their supposed \”cowardice\” with such relish? The trouble with this is that it confirms in the eyes of the world certain myths about America which may have more foundation than do ours about the French ñ namely, we are indifferent to history at best, and at worst will selectively misuse history to flatter our national vanity. French cowardice is an easy and simplistic picture of history that satisfies a people too lazy-minded to learn what in other parts of the world passes for just plain general knowledge.As for the French showing cowardice in World War I: were they cowards at the battle of the Marne in 1914, when they died by the hundreds of thousands to stop the German advance? Or at Verdun in 1916, where they lost over 160,000 men? In a war that lasted more than four years, which the American army fought six months of, the French lost a million and a half men, the Americans 130,000. Yet many of us today are under the impression we won their war for them. How dare we challenge the courage of so many men who, eighty-five years ago, fought and died for their country? It took more courage for a soldier to get through one day of World War I than most Americans are called upon to show in a lifetime.
But it is especially the memory of France’s surrender to Hitler in June 1940 that many Americans cherish, as though the surrender of any nation to Nazi Germany, let alone the biggest democracy on the continent, would be something for Americans might wish to savor with amusement. Does it ever occur to many of us to wonder why, then, did it take the combined efforts of the United States, the Soviet Union and the British Empire four years to whip the Germans? But France in 1940 should have prevailed alone?
For France, whose sole ally had retreated across the Channel, was very much alone, locked in a highly unequal struggle it had entered on behalf of another nation’s freedom. Let us recall the United States did not enter the war on behalf of anyone else’s freedom; we waited until we were attacked. France, which had seen its richest provinces ravaged in the previous war, and still weak from a bloodletting the United States has never come close to enduring, faced a foe half again bigger than itself, equipped with the most advanced weapons in the world. With a third of its territory in German hands, half its army taken prisoner in underground bunkers on the Maginot line, the French surrendered, rather than be slaughtered in a fight they were bound to lose anyway. And let us recall that in June 1940, the United States did not lift a finger for France.
Meanwhile, a few weeks ago we tried to convince ourselves the Iraqi army will sensibly refuse to fight against overwhelming odds, but we still belittle the French for doing just that. The truth is, in the twentieth century France made gigantic sacrifices on behalf of freedom, even greater than Americans did, but this remains shamefully unacknowledged by Americans today. Furthermore, our sneering at French cowardice is profoundly unhistorical; no scholar of any nationality, probing the causes of the French collapse in 1940, has ever advanced the theory that it was due to collective cowardice. – http://www.headlinemuse.com/Politics/mythfrench.htm
\”Ah, go eat a Freedom Fry, or something.\”
Hmmm, can I have a Mecca Cola with that order, served Parisian style. 😉
France folded to the wehrmacht in what, a month? Paris was given up without even a bullet fired. England was left to take the brunt of the action until the eastern front opened. I mean, see it how you want to if that makes you happy.
Twelve straight days of rioting, over three hundred towns blazing, over fourty cops hurt, and they’re just now *considering* a curfew. Gee, ya think?
Ah Jeez, here we go… Shouldn’t this be more of a dispute over France’s occasional revolution, not its \”cowardice\”.
My experience here comes from my mosh pit days at the punk shows, the closest thing to a riot I’ve been in. One thing you notice is that you’d be hard pressed to hit any exact targets like the eye or solar plexis- maybe just the head and body. The sensory overload is a weird thing. I wouldn’t try to kick anyone because you’d be on one foot, and you definitely don’t want to go to the ground- people get hurt at concerts and the crowd isn’t even intentionally attacking them (its good form to help someone up as soon as they fall down). I’ve heard groundfighters giving the strategy to catch one person in your guard to use as a shield, but this wouldn’t help you if surrounded- it would make things much worse. I’d say you’d want to keep your feet on the ground and try to get through with elbows and open hand strikes. Palm strikes under the chin have the advantage of creating space and destroying posture while causing lots of damage- repeated jackhammering of palm strikes under the chin as you advance through seems like a good strategy. Fist strikes may be iffy, because as I mentioned at least for me targeting is iffy- people are moving and there’s all kinds of stimulus and punches are likely to land on skulls, elbows, weapons, and other hard, knuckle breaking surface. Don’t try to grapple or strain with any one person, or you’ll become solid and fixated enough to strike, take down, grab etc. Some advocate the use of stomps to attack the lower body and regain balance and make it difficult to grab the legs, but I don’t know a whole lot about that- sounds effective. I’d rather keep the feet close to the ground.
Ha, its been a while, but I think my Attack Proof is showing again.French Cowards? Naaa. Actually they just arent very good at war without Napoleon or Joan of Arc. The french would have lost WW1 if we had not intervened, they were horribly mismanaging the war and the millions they lost was because the spent too much time trying to satiate their pride by attacking out of trenches at the wrong time with no artillery support.
The US did win the war for the French. The french admit it. It was the Marines that got the term Devil Dogs in WWI from the French and Germans because they fought like possessed dogs. Keep in mind…the front during WWI was not all that far from Paris and the french were loosing ground till we came along.
As for WWII, the British did not \”withdraw\” to england. They were forced out by the speed of the german blitzkrieg. The french thought they were so safe behind their supposedly impregnable Maginot Line. The Germans just went around. The french military problem is not cowardice…their problem is truly mismanagement by cowards. The only true heros of france are those that independant of the \”government\” started a resistance that caused the germans to delay over and over its full invasion of brittain.
Viva la resistance’!
Re:
Viva la resistance’, indeed. ‘Silent protest’ marches won’t do the trick, methinks. What’s called for is a two-state solution. Free Paristine. 😆
I dunno about equating slamdancing to a riot. You wouldn’t find the crowd chanting \”kill whitey\” at a circle jerks concert…directing the violence at one person.
If you find yourself in the middle of a riot, and you become the focus of the mobs anger, the best thing to do is immediately admit you are the cause of all the groups problems, and agree to do whatever is necessary to rectify the problems you have caused. This will keep you safe.
On the other hand, I am a Neandrathal. Be armed, Cause as much damage as possible to anyone who attacks you.\”But it is especially the memory of France’s surrender to Hitler in June 1940 that many Americans cherish, as though the surrender of any nation to Nazi Germany, let alone the biggest democracy on the continent, would be something for Americans might wish to savor with amusement. Does it ever occur to many of us to wonder why, then, did it take the combined efforts of the United States, the Soviet Union and the British Empire four years to whip the Germans? But France in 1940 should have prevailed alone?\”
What bugs most Americans was not only the speed of the collapse (they has a larger army in both personelle and pieces of equipment than the Wehrmacht)- a FEW underarmed, STARVED Jews is the Warsaw Ghetto held out longer against the might of the Germans longer than the entire nation of France-but also the films of the French people welcoming the Germans as liberators. We have all seen them, girls rushing out to kiss the \”heroes\”.
You can call the French anything you want. To me, and the rest of us, they are cowards and Europe’s whores. They spread their legs for Germany.
Now they are reaping what they sow.
\”LAND FOR PEACE\” They have preached to Israel 50 years of this nonsense. Now it is their turn to put up or shut up. Israel is supposed to give terrorists land for peace, let the French give up some land for peace. Anti-semetic Vichy hippocrits. Defend them all you want. Cheese eating surrender monkey douches.
LeMarteu, it’s the not the cowardice that I find objectionable. It’s the hipocrisy. France has repeatedly blamed Israel for the conflict. Called them an occupying force etc. YET, is it an accident that a quarter of Africa and South East Asia speaks french? I suppose when Algeria decided to become independent, the French just walked, correct? First they drowned the insurgency in blood, which turned it into a full blown rebellion. Perhaps one could remember ratonnades-\”rat hunts\” for Arab men by French para’s and regroupement-placement of 2 million people into concentration camps. This movement was also one of the birthplaces of suicidal bombing. This kind of stuff makes it difficult to take what they say serious.
I’m not saying that a mosh pit is the same as a riot by any means, but if you’re in one (not a bunch of people standing up in front of their seat banging their head- concerts with chairs at big venues are lame) you get an appreciation for what its like to be in a big, moving, violent crowd where people are trying to push and shove each other around, and how it would be difficult to focus on any one person to attack. And people do get hurt- you end up with mystery bruises, I’ve been kicked in the eye, I accidentally knocked someone out with my head, there’s some mentally unbalanced people who throw elbows or clothesline, you can get hurt if you fall down, etc. Anyway, like I said, I can only speak of my own experience, and I’ve never been in a riot aimed at attacking me (unless having groups of small children try and take you down counts)
Re:
Hey hey, I’ve been in a few mosh pits when I was a youngin. 8) 😆
Thing is, compare your experiences to what Reginald Denning went through during the LA riots. Remember him?…the trucker dude that got yanked out of his rig and had his clock cleaned with a fire extinguisher. General chaos is one thing, having a mob direct their aggression at you is another. I figure that’s what Siayn was referring to.
Hey, looks like people on this board hate France more than me!! 😀 But seriously, \”cheese eating surrender monkey douches\”? 😆
About the riot thing: If you got caught up in one and there were any way to blend in with the crowd, that might be something to try. Throw stuff, act angry, as if you were one of the rioters, then try to slowly back away from the scene, don’t run, just slowly disappear.
That would of course be harder, if the riot is directed at people of a specific race. If so, and you are of the race being targeted, if any possible, maybe you could try to hide your face somehow, use a hat, glasses, maybe a rag/sweater/shirt, to pull around your face, then act like the rioters (pretending the disguise is just so the police won’t be able to see your face. When you look at tapes of riots, often one can see rioters hide their faces). Then get away as soon as you can, but you probably shouldn’t run, so you won’t draw attention to yourself. Obviously, it would be very hard to try and fight a large, enraged mob.
Hey wankers, go hate France in another thread. This is my riot thread, stay on topic!
And don’t worry GK, I still hate you more than France. 😆
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