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Hi guys,
I went for a trial class at my local KM school as many of you have recommended, and based on what we did during the class, I have a question. I will post my full experience in another thread to get your opinion on the school and instructors later on.
What we mostly did in class was the roundhouse kick. Personally, I had a hard time doing the kick with my running shoes on the hardwood floor (the instructors had boxing shoes which are far more slippery) and that made me wonderÖ
When would it be appropriate to use a roundhouse kick instead of just a basic soccer kick to the shins? A low-line soccer kick is easier to do and a far more natural reaction when under stress, so it seemed unusual for a self-defense school to dedicate almost an entire class to perfecting the roundhouse kick.
Re: Roundhouse kicks
quote \”curious\:When would it be appropriate to use a roundhouse kick instead of just a basic soccer kick to the shins? A low-line soccer kick is easier to do and a far more natural reaction when under stress, so it seemed unusual for a self-defense school to dedicate almost an entire class to perfecting the roundhouse kick.I think you’ll be the best judge to determine which kick or strike is appropriate in any given situation, but any class which serves to teach self-defense has an obligation to provide you with alternatives to what might initially feel natural to you this early in your training.
Keep an open mind and consider it an addition to your arsenal. And when you think about it, landing a \”soccer kick\” to a shin means accurately targeting a very narrow fast moving target… especially difficult when you’re under stress. An opportunity to roundhouse to the ribcage or head is a much bigger target and usually a show stopper. With practice, the speed and power you can generate with that is unbelievable.
Try watching some Buakaw highlights on youtube. Wow.
Really? Hardwood floors? We’re on mats. I’d be buying some boxing shoes.
I remember, the first time I ever saw a teacher demonstrate a roundhouse kick I knew right there and then that I’d never be athletic enough to do this type of crazy kick. It just seemed like such a difficult motion, standing on one leg, pivoting all the way around, hitting something with any force and then putting the leg back into the correct stance, all without toppling over.
Well, little by little, with lots of practice, my roundhouse kick kept getting better and better now it’s very strong.
Just give it some time and you’ll improve. Good targets for a roundhouse could be the liver, also the thigh. If the head is open, it can produce quite a good knockout (just watch Gonzaga vs Cro Cop). Also, if your opponent is bent over, a roundhouse to the head could work from a shorter distance.
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GiantkillerI know that I have been popped in the thigh by a good hard round kick- particularly, the bundle of nerves on the outside of my thigh. It should have dropped me (my pride wouldn’t allow it though….). I couldn’t walk correctly for about a week or so, felt like I had a charley horse the entire time.
Its a good kick, I use it fighting all the time. Fact is many of the training partners I work with are sick of it, and tend to through it on me a lot as well. Great setup for simple sparring, get them thinking low then hit them up high. In a fight if you dont take them out with that kick, its again a great setup to get inside and start with some other combatives.
Still my favorite kick, is the A frame as its sometimes called. Or more simply, a front kick to the groin. Sometimes I wonder if all of Krav needs therapy – it always seems to be about the groin…
As jburtonpdx points out a round house to the legs, especially the thigh can really put your oponent out. Imagine a mugger trying to chase you back to your car and he is limping and stumbling.
All the KM classes I’ve been to focus on different things for the lesson part of the class. The classes go in a rotation, showing different moves and techniques through the weeks of instruction. By the time you are ready for a level test you will have seen and had a lesson on all the techniques at least 2 – 3 times. Some are a bit harder to pickup and do correctly than others.
As for the shoes, I have had the same sort of issues. The standard technique is to pivot on the ball of your foot. However, if you have good running shoes they are much stickier and won’t let your foot pivot. An alternate technique I was taught is to lift your foot ever so slightly and rotate it so it points out away (to the outside) of your hip. It allows for mostly the same effect as pivoting but it has the disadvantage of being a bit less graceful.
A couple of months back I pick up regular Tennis shoes that have much smoother sole than typical running shoes. These have worked fairly well, but in fitness class I’ve missed some of the stickyness of the running shoes.
Another person on the list was advocating using running shoes and dealing with the pivot issue because in an unexpected fighting situation you won’t necessarily be wearing the optimal shoes.
Buying new shoes is akward. Isn’t Krav Maga supposed to be useful in the street, ie. concrete, gravel, grass…? And I walk around the city in my running shoes, not boxing or tennis shoes. I coudn’t even do a proper roundhouse kick in the controled school environment, but a soccer kick was no problem.
Often times, I’ve seen that people have trouble with roundhouse kicks because of shoes actually have a problem pivoting because they are not on the ball of the foot. If you try a roundhouse flat footed, you end up having a lot more surface area to cause friction and sticking. Another method that may make this easier is stepping outward with the lead leg and turning the foot outward, basically pivoting the foot first then whipping the hips. Its more telegraphic, but the stepping uses angular footwork that can be favorable for you.
The low shin kicks are also good, though. I don’t do them like soccer kicks; they’re more like low front kicks. There used to be a sport called purring (welsch I think) where two combatants clinch and kick each other in the shins. The methods found their way into bareknuckle boxing. I couldn’t find any youtube purring clips, but I can tell you that the first time I saw it it was way more violent than it sounds.The Thai low kick to the thigh is an awesome kick, In my last MMA fight I almost knocked the guy down with it. Keep going to your class you will soon learn to kick with any footwear, but try a pure Muay Thai class if you want to perfect your low kick. Don,t forget though you won,t learn it in a couple of months, it takes practice.
Craig.
curioius,
You did say it was your first class, right. Well, it may have been the night that the instructors wanted to emphasize round kicks, perhaps in preparation for something else later on. As you advance and start light sparring, you will see the effectiveness of round kicks.About the choke and standing in a passive stance. The instructor may have told you not to stand with one leg in front for your own protection during the drill. When your partner performed the choke defense (double pluck with kick to the groin) he/she could have kicked you in the front leg if it was in the path to the groin. And with street shoes (tennis shoes, cross trainers, etc.) it would hurt like hell. In a real life situation, who cares. But, in the classroom, safety is first and formost – you don’t want to injure your partner.
Continue going to classes and you should soon grasp the effectivness of each technique taught.
Good luck.
Yea, stay on the balls of your feet. I fight in cross training shoes and had the same pivot problem, but I got over it. But dude, just like in your last post, you are second guessing the system. A shin is not a target…it is a weapon. A kick to the shins with a toe is going to hurt the toe and the shin, but the toe will break. A shini to the ribs, leg, knee, head…you get the point.
I’ve read about \”purring\” in a book once and it sounded pretty brutal. Those guys must have some severe problems later on in life, when their \”purring\” career is over…
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GiantkillerThe shin is a target and a weapon, assuming you are attacking correctly. The same thing applies to the foot, hand, elbow, knee and head.
Re:
quote \”curious\:Buying new shoes is akward. Isn’t Krav Maga supposed to be useful in the street, ie. concrete, gravel, grass…? And I walk around the city in my running shoes, not boxing or tennis shoes. I coudn’t even do a proper roundhouse kick in the controled school environment, but a soccer kick was no problem.OK – But do you typically spend time on hardwoord floors (as stated elsewhere) in your running shoes? Look – From this, and your other thread you seem to be disappointed, but also very impatient after one class … I think that either you’ve already trained in another system and think everyone else is \”doing it wrong\”, or you just expected too much from your first class. As said here, and on the other thread; give it some time grasshopper … You have to learn to walk before you can run – Everything in KM builds on the basics, and \”perfecting\” anything takes willingness to learn, proper instruction, repitition/practice and; did I mention willingness to learn? 😉
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