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In the spirit of letting others know what’s out there:
The other day, I was doing some training at the local park/rec center. I had about an hour and a half before I had some teaching to do. About 350 feet away, I noticed a bunch of kids from the local high school start to congregate. There was 15-20 of them, mostly filipino or other asian. They formed a loose circle around 20 feet across, and two began to fight. Later on, there were several more one on one encounters. Things I noted:-several had weapons. About four or five had those little novelty baseball bats, one had what seemed to be a sock with something heavy in it (a lock or something), and one had a balisong, which he played with for a good while (he seemed to know only one open and close). They never came into play- it seemd more like a \”fight club\”, not anything really malicious. I thought to myself that seeing as how they just came from the school most likely, they probably had these weapons there as well.
– technical details- all of the fights ended up on the ground at some point, but there was no good groundfighting. Rather than achieving a mount, they either stayed upright and stooped over for strikes, or used weird semi-mounted positions). Lots of wild punches thrown, using both the usual knuckles as well as striking with the middle knuckles. Sometimes they assumed a stance, withe the hands around chest height and close to the body, and constantly moving up and down from the elbow, and the body square. The only grappling involved was a double leg takedown while ducking under a flurry of punches. The double leg usually didn’t work because the other guy would lean over and grab around the back, or lean over and throw hooks to the sides (and the takedown would happen with poor form, with the back almost parallel with the ground). One double leg worked and resulted in a hard body slam. The most effective tactic for winning was running in with a barrage of punches, all to the head area.
-From the reactions of those around, this was a rather casual affair- between fights there was joking and such. There was lots of circling and trash talking before any fighting happened. I learned from some girl that these were initiation fights. They went until submission.
At some point, another gang of about six came along and started trash talking with the first, and then they left and said they’d be back in a while. At this point I figured that they might be coming back with guns, so I left. Thinking back, It would have been a good time to call the cops, but I didn’t think of it at the time (or at any time before that).
Reminds me of some of my old high school days back in the ’50s 😳 (dating myself again).
There were always fights happening after school. Two guys (or girls) would would get into it. Then, some times, a friend of the loser would want to retaliate and take on the winner. A friend of the loser of that fight would talk trash and want to take on the winner. — and so on until the cops came. There were seldom any weapons involved in these after school fights back then, except for a belt and buckle maybe.
Gang fights between rival gangs was a differnent story. Weapons were used such as knives, clubs, chains, and the all famous \”zip gun\” (a home made gun that usually fired one short 22 cartidge at a time).
Oh, the good old days 😆
Those are some interesting observations.
One question: What’s a \”balisong\”?
The description of the guy with the sock and \”somerthing heavy in it\” made me wonder how you would defend against such a weapon if it were swung at your head. Seems that if you did either stick or knife defense, the sock could still swing around and hit you in the back of the head (or ribs, if swung lower or you tried overhead stick defense). Of course, it would be better than being hit in the face or side of the head, but if there’s something really heavy inside that sock, it might still cause some damage (Or maybe they’d also put something sharp inside, such as nails or broken glass). Which defense would be recommended against that type of attack? Maybe baseball bat defense would give you the most protection?
The groundfighting observations are interesting. Do you think a decent groundfighter would have been able to get up relatively easy with these inexperienced guys on top? Or would he have been able to reverse the position?
with the majority of highschool street fights that go to the ground, anyone with basic experience and a cool head that isn’t afraid to take a punch or two would have no problem ending the fight quickly. From what I got out of this post was a bunch of kids who seriously believe in a \”punchers chance\”. All balls no brains.
Thanks for the explanation!
I’ve been thinking about that sock thing again. Maybe knife defense (360) could work well if the sock isn’t too long and you make sure to keep that 90 degree angle. In that case, it would probably swing around your arm and not cause much damage. It might also be quicker, if you are surprised.
balisong= butterfly knife. Its simply a blade with two handles attached on hinges. Its one of the types of knives that is illegal in California because of its opening mechanism (gravity/inertia opening), and the fact that when locked closed, it is an ideal stabbing weapon. This is a shame, because for criminal purposes many legal knives would do as well or better, and I’d like to carry mine around (I have a dull trainer I play with when I’m at red lights). Tons of filipinos (particularly those from the Phillipines, not filipino americans) carry these things, usually getting them as children and playing with them as toys (from what I’ve heard from filipino friends). Being a blade culture, they aren’t seen as sinister like they are here. There’s some cool videos of these in action at http://www.balisongxtreme.com.
Rock in a sock- If you had the speed for it, the best defense would be to duck under a swing at the head. If overcommited, it would hit the attacker in the back. I’ve never heard of anyone using a sock with something sharp in it- it would tear up the sock and be awkward to carry around. Homeless people often carry a similar weapon- a sock full of change- works just like a sap. It is a weapon of choice because its a good way to hold change they collect. Sailors for ages have been known for tieing a monkey fist knot around a weight for use as a similar weapon (this is where the term ‘slungshot’ comes from- tieing this knot around large steel shot for guns). It is either swung like a chain, or put in the hand and thrown into the face, with the other end tied to the wrist. A few movies have used a jacket with full soda cans in it- a good improvised weapon. I read about one variation with a weight tied to a piece of surgical tubing, so the weight can be drawn back like a bow and slung into the face of the opponent (I toyed with the idea of making a surgical tubing lanyard for my keys for the same purpose). A good deal of this info is somewhere on donrearic.com.
Memories
Reminds me of the high school days back in the 90s. Although drive-by shootings were common, Filipino gangs had some one-on-one scuffles like that. I used to participate in some of those when someone had a beef with me. I didn’t start the conflict but I didn’t back down once it was on. Although I never was part of a criminal gang, I made sure I brought help along (even occassionally was aided by the Diego Boys) just in case. At that time, all I knew was wrestling, which I learned from high school. I already had a good punch and used my ground control tactics to ground and pound or used a choke (although had no jujitsu knowledge at that time, already knew the rudiments of the rear naked choke/choked someone out on some occassions). My opponents would brag that they have a black belt in this and that. But once they got slammed or taken down, it’s in my favor. I knew back then that there were very few or virtually no standup systems (most had a background in that area) that were equipped to deal with grapplers. When my opponent lost, they always have an excuse saying that I cheated by taking the fight to the ground and chickened out from fighting standup. They even though I was gonna fight standing up. I replied that I fought my own game to my advantage, being short but stocky. I recall fighting around 5-6 matches (lucky to not have lost), most of them taking place at the Oceanfornt beach area, sometimes at night. One of them, in front of my neighborhood school (opponent got choked out). I am recalling my similar experience. Although I was stronger and in much better physical condition then, I had limited skills except takedown, control, and then ground and pound/choke. Boy I can’t imagine what I’m capable of doing now with my additional background (Muay Thai/Jujitsu/JKD/FMA/Combatives/Lae Enforcement DT) have I been in those situations back then.
Re:
quote \”CLFMak\:I read about one variation with a weight tied to a piece of surgical tubing, so the weight can be drawn back like a bow and slung into the face of the opponent (I toyed with the idea of making a surgical tubing lanyard for my keys for the same purpose). A good deal of this info is somewhere on donrearic.com.One thing you might try is tying a slip knot around your keychain that you can tighten around you finger (out of 550 paracord for instance). Practice it about 5 times and suddenly you are an expert at snapping your keys in the bad guy’s face, quite effectively opening up his groin, solar plexis and throat as he recoils. Also since it’s just a loop of thin (but strong) cordage, it isnt as bulky as tube and it wont make police or security nervous or look less than stylish (as if you cared). Mostly defensive weapon, but it positions you for counter attack. If you have enough keys, say if you are a high school janitor or something, you could even swing them for a similar effect as the rock-in-a-sock. I personally added a few items to my keychain just to augment the effects. 😈 Just my 2 cents.
jaeroo
\”Boy I can’t imagine what I’m capable of doing now with my additional background (Muay Thai/Jujitsu/JKD/FMA/Combatives/Lae Enforcement DT) have I been in those situations back then.\”
Hopefully you will find out that you don’t need to fight. If you know you can beat someone up. Why fight them? Just back out if you can. No need to hurt someone just to prove you can.Thats not a bad idea. Right now I keep a Cold Steel Urban Pal knife on my keychain- its the best knife you can buy at such a small size.
\”Hopefully you will find out that you don’t need to fight. If you know you can beat someone up. Why fight them? Just back out if you can. No need to hurt someone just to prove you can. \”
Great advice but something that comes with age I think. Best fighter I have ever spared with made a comment, why get in a bar fight that would be over in three seconds, I have nothing to prove, if you know me, you know what I am capable of, if you don’t, I would rather you under-estimate me. On the flip side, doesn’t hurt to be prepard.
JC
I know better now and don’t get into any trouble anymore unlike before. I don’t have to prove anything anymore and would be more likely to avoid or talk my way out of a problem. Confronting it would be the last resort if other neans have failed. Learning the martial arts has taught me to become a much better, more mature individual able to solve problems under pressure.
I know better now and don’t get into any trouble anymore unlike before. I don’t have to prove anything anymore and would be more likely to avoid or talk my way out of a problem. Confronting it would be the last resort if other means have failed. Learning the martial arts has taught me to become a much better, more mature individual able to solve problems under pressure. I’ve even took psychology to learn to understand why others act a certain way. It has also taught me how to accept others for what they are rahter than imposing my will on them.
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