Statement Regarding John Whitman

[vwr32]

Re:

[quote:530c0187e7=\”bloomquist\”]Is it to encourage, advance and standardize the art, or to make cash.[/quote:530c0187e7]

I don’t like the way ‘business’ deals with people. It completely ignores past accomplishment or personal sacrifice in favor of increasing the never-good enough bottom line. Having said that, the decision in this case was made in an effort to increase customers and make the business grow beyond where it was when John Whitman was there. They cannot encourage, advance and standardize the \”art\” if the business is stagnant (not saying it was in this case), and making cash isn’t evil. Like the others have said, they are inseparable in a business environment.

Having said that, I’ll agree with GK’s position on this concerning the more cold, businesslike atmosphere. I too liked Mr Whitmans involvement in the forums and avilability. It added a sense that the people at the top truely were interested in hearing issues from us lowly, peons that most often are only heard via a report of profits. I really liked it, but the reality is the vast majority of students don’t know who John Whitman is, nor Darren Lavine, nor Imi Lichtenfeld. They just want to learn krav.

In highlighting those differences of availability between pre and post changes at the top, Mr Lavine didn’t even take the time to address his customers directly concerning the forums. Instead, CJ’s Dad posted it on Mr Lavine’s behalf. And look at the new moderators since the change:

Darren Lavine
Krav Maga Senior Instructor
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Total posts: 0

Dave Bluestein
Krav Maga Senior Instructor
Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Total posts: 2

Jarret Waldman
Krav Maga Senior Instructor
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Total posts: 0

Jon Pascal
Krav Maga Senior Instructor
Occupation: Director of Force Training
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Total posts: 0

J Jackson
Krav Maga Instructor
Location: Los Angeles
Occupation: KMW Instructor
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Total posts: 0

Whenever there was a change in leadership in the military, the new leaders always addressed the soldiers directly. It has always been that way at my work too when there’s a significant change. The fomality sends a message to the employees/soldiers that the gap between top and bottom isn’t distanced by profit/rank. It’s an admission of reliance on each other to reach a common goal.

While the \”new and improved\” kmw now seems a bit less friendly in the forums, it’s business as usual in the classes I’ve been in. We’re small potatoes, agreed. But quality instruction isn’t dependant on forum participation from those at the top nor absent simply because KMW makes what it thinks is sound business decisions.

This is what happens when I turn off the xbox. 😕

[cjs-dad]

If I may address your comments with the information I have personal knowledge of

Darren Levine
Has been on the road doing seminars and visiting licensees. He also has a large case load he is balancing in addition to teaching several classes at NTC.

Dave Bluestein
Is in the forums daily in addition to his normal responsibilities as a LEO and teaching several classes a day. I speak to him a few times a week regarding the forums.

Jarret Waldman
Is in the forums regularly in addition to teaching 6 days a week I speak to him daily regarding posts in the technique section.

Jon Pascal
Is on the road doing LEO/Force training we had a meeting right before he left regarding the forums.

Jeanine Jackson
Is currently dealing with the licenseeís personally during the transition.

In addition to those above we have notable licensees like Ryan, JamesH and Jeremy Stafford (I could go on) who are in the forums and available should questions arise.

I hope that sheds some light on the current status of our new mods and the forums in general.

[giant-killer]

As for changes in the classes, there is for us at the NTC, since we lost John as a teacher as well because of this decision and he was the most senior instructor teaching there.

Yes, and I miss him on the forum as well. It was a great thing for all students to be able to communicate with the president of the company as well as one of the most senior instructors in the system and get a chance to hear his expert opinion on all things Krav related. Now it’s mostly students talking to each other, which is nice, but there is less of a connection. The other Israeli SD forums all still have their leaders moderate and it does add a personal touch.

Yes, it was disappointing that no one \”addressed the troops\”. I’ve been at the NTC for ten years and John was always around. But I’m getting the feeling I may be there for another ten and might never even find out what our new leader looks like. There was no flyer or note or anything telling of John’s departure and unless you are reading the forum or ask specifically about him, you may never find out what happened. Maybe they didn’t realize how many people would care?

As for the business aspect, I suppose it’s possible to teach KM without looking for profit, which was done for many years before the NTC opened. Classes were held at much smaller facilities (university gym, day school) and I doubt they made much money of it.

Of course it’s great to spread the system, but it would be sad if the spirit of it got lost while doing so. It would be best to balance business interests with maintaining the integrity of the system as well and I hope they will be doing that. From a student’s point of view I don’t know why they couldn’t have brought in Bruce Mallen as a special advisor and still keep John as president/teacher/moderator of the forum etc. Maybe that way we would have gotten the best of both worlds.

vwr32, by the way, it’s \”Levine\”, not \”Lavine\”.

_________________
Giantkiller

[giant-killer]

CJ’sDad, even if they are busy, I do suspect the real reasons they are not posting is that they just don’t have much interest in it. That’s fine, not everyone has. But that’s why it was a good thing to have John, who started this forum years ago before there were any other Israeli martial art forums and who always took time to check in and post, even while running the company, teach and write novels in addition to that.

_________________
Giantkiller

[ryan]

They are listed as moderators, but understand, they would only have need to \”chime in\” if there were items not being handled by other members.

There are plenty of forum members capable of addressing most issues that arise. In the event something requires a response beyond that, I assure you someone else will take the initiative to do so. In the grand scheme of furthering the system and the business, the forum is a rather small cog, which by and large, runs fine without much intervention or direction.

[vwr32]

Re:

[quote:5e654128a3=\”Ryan\”]They are listed as moderators, but understand, they would only have need to \”chime in\” if there were items not being handled by other members. [/quote:5e654128a3]

You really don’t need to come to their defense. I doubt the senior instructors listed as mods just recently became involved with KMW, meaning they’ve never felt the need to interact here before so their future absence will hardly be missed. I can’t imagine a more appropriate time for their \”need to chime in\” than to directly address a change in leadership. That ship has sailed, but it has no impact on the quality of training being offered in schools.

The forum lost a senior instructor who interacted with students and instructors and was replaced with a list of people who are too busy to even tell us themselves they are here for us should the need arise. If they are THAT busy, maybe the jobs of ‘mods’ should go to those who have time to moderate.

It’s not a slam to kmw, I understand they’re running a business here and not a fourm. It’s not like we’re all sitting around waiting to have questions answered from people at the top. And I understand there are lots of very qualified and capable members/instructors handy to answer any issue that might arise. But a good analogy is that we went from having someone at the top hanging out with us on the streetcorner to having the top move to a more exclusive gated community. We’re still here on the corner wondering why the top can’t even say hello.

CJ’s Dad, thanks for clarifying the mods do pay attention to the forum. My statements weren’t an attack on anyone. When we lost John Whitman, all of a sudden there are all these names of people who are supposed to be associated with forum issues, yet have no posts whatsoever. For those of us who don’t know them personally (almost everyone maybe), it looks like the forum was turned over to people who don’t use it. Again, thanks for clarifying.

[unstpabl1]

I’ve avoided this subject for a few reasons. Most notably for lurkers and as a reminder I don’t take krav but probably only because of the finacial arrangements. From a consumer POV contracts suck, for something like this. I would never recommend them,especially for kids. From a business POV they make absolute sense. You got a nut to make every month and it ain’t cheap on either Ventura Blvd or Olympic.. If your an affiliate you got your monthly lisensing fee as well. So I understand the importance of business and having a plan.

Krav has done a pretty good job of riding a line between hard core trainer and the hobbyist. Realize that the soccer mom/dad have the most disposable income and make up a higher rate of the martial arts consumer. women have been overlooked in most systems. krav in a way made \”Fighting Chicks\” cool. Kardio Krav a name that pisses off many serves a purpose and has gotten many in the door and taught valuable skills to a group of people who normally wouldn’t take responsibility for their own protection. The myth of the 1st responder to save the day programmed into their psyche. remember the hobbyist,who does krav on Tuesday and Thursday probably is 90% of the membership. Fighters maybe 10%. This is most dojos. Kids and their parents keep a martial arts schools doors open and the turn over is great. Shit happens

Krav’s demand was great. Supplying quality instructors an issue. First you had to train them, then make sure they could secure the financing to open a school and make it viable. Then how do you police the instruction. This problem has been around forever. I tease CJ’s Dad about the similarities between what Krav is going thru and kenpo. Study the history. Having a strong Business leader is important to KMAA survival. Hopefully the high ranking instructors will keep the QC of the training. I assume Mr. Mallen is a Business guy and the board felt that was whats needed in this new competitive market. Time will tell. All you can do is keep telling the instructors and this forum what you expect outta your training.

Change is never easily acceptable, especially one that changes the face of an Organiztion and doesn’t give you another face to replace it. John was an instructor to you more than a businessman. His displacement a shock to all. Hope he has a non compete clause in his contract and a great buyout 😀

In fairness to Darren, whom I don’t know, He has the KMAA, a high stress important job and a family to raise on his own. Participating on this forum is probably not a high priority. John filled that roll here, now CJ’s Dad does. However, John being a figurehead meant he just addresses the issue where Darren had to draft a letter. Should the issue had been addrerssed sooner, maybe,but more than likely the affiliates were the first order of business. The word got out, leaked by another forum quicker than anticipated. Now its spin control 😆

Sorry for the length (cont)

[unstpabl1]

CJ’s Dad has done an excellent job moderating this forum. Its extended in the few months and more instructors are posting. so much so I haven’t been posting much. I’ve wanted to dissappear from this forum for a long time but some topic would pull me back in, because instructors weren’t responding or posts were few. Now they are and its awesome. A community is forming, people are responding to 1st time posters.

posting on boards is a real time consuming endeavor. In truth its a time suck. I’m sure if Jarret or David felt something was outta control they’d respond, but in truth the forum in a way is self disciplining itself, instructors are stepping up and what isn’t addressed CJ’s Dad has deallt with.

I thinkthe forum exists to promote the system and for krav folk to meet. Share info. Questions are asked answers are found. Moderation simply means keeping an eye on things. It doesn’t mean actively participating or posting. I figure CJ’s Dad does that and if you noticed he uses a light hand. Which is cool because the forum doesn’t become about one guys ego

I met Jarret once. He won’t remember, but I was a very pissed off consumer. A few on this board know how angry I was and it takes alot. Though Jarret didn’t really solve my problem and in a way blew me off 😆 after watching his class I was impressed , by his energy and teaching style. He’s an excellent martial artist. Don’t take this out of context but he said he didn’t like the forum. His reason was legitimate. If people want to know about the system you got to show up, shut up and train. I’m not quoting him. My words, buts whats truely important is the training. If the training isn’t going where you like., the forum is a great place to express it. Doesn’t mean your right though or wrong. Its cool to know their reading it and info is being passed on. Anyway. CJ’s Dad is moderating this board on top of his other commitments and has allowed an openess to it

i never met John, but I liked him. I respect him. I didn’t always agree with him and wasn’t shy about it. i don’t think anybody on this forum, non political, debated him more. And many of our disagreements were on the business and perceptions. The truth is only a few people know the real reasons behind the changes and truthfully its between them. Our only concern must be with our training. Improving ourselves and being active in the krav community with a positive attitude. Seeking to uplift. sorry didn’t mean to include myself 😳

As an artist my hope for John is that he can get back to the thing I suspect he really wanted to be before Krav came into his life, A writer. Maybe this was in his best interest. I truely hope so, and deep down i have that feeling. Write hard John. Looking forward to reading your work. and if your seeking inspiration,buddy, I recommend \”The Art Of War\” by Stephen Pressfield. He also wrote Bagger Vance and Gates Of Fire. Good Luck John

From that PIA
mike

[vwr32]

Re:

[quote:4a92e720dc=\”unstpabl1\”]Don’t take this out of context but he said he didn’t like the forum. His reason was legitimate. If people want to know about the system you got to show up, shut up and train. [/quote:4a92e720dc]

You act like you’re trying to get away, but u know u like it here. 😛

I agree with your entire post. I singled out this to highlight my point. I agree with Jarret on this and completely understand why some people don’t like forums. I can’t think of a single question posted here that couldn’t be answered by one of two responses:
1. Go ask your instructor.
2. Google it your damn self.

Nutrition, exercise programs, belts, equipment reviews or suggestions, etc etc, it all falls under those two answers. And kudos to CJ’s Dad for being on top of the most recent inquiry into the differences between KM and CKM. But not just him… to everyone who still patiently addresses the same questions from different people who cycle thru here every day because they still remember what it’s like to be new.

John’s replacement doesn’t mean KMW is going to pot and we’re not looking at a future Krav McGa scenario simply because those at the top aren’t posting in the forum. It isn’t Bruce Mallen’s fault he was asked to run things and I know what it’s like to have to take over a job for someone who wasn’t looking to leave. I’m sure his intentions aren’t to bushwhack us and run the reputation into the dirt for profit.

The McDojo’s have been around a long time, and from a business perspective I think it makes sense to maintain as high a reputation as possible in the current MMA frenzy still building in America. Ruin the reputation, and you can almost guarantee a clientele who feels it necessary to question even paying $10 a month to some tkd instructor bootlegging krav from a no-overhead university gym. (No offense if that person happens to be an instructor here who is moonlighting lol.)

So to bloomquist, I think you’re entitled to your opinion but way offbase that a change in leadership is indicative of a change in quality training. Good luck to u.

But I stand by my support for GK’s position that it feels like we’ve lost the only bridge to the top when John left. One of my favorite restaurants is a locally owned Asian place where the owner himself still makes rounds and asks if everything is ok. He doesn’t *have* to, and I’m sure he gets tired of hearing the same old replies. I’d eat there even if he didn’t because the food is good, but it’s just nicer that he does. If he sold the place to businessmen who could grow the restaurant even larger but are too busy to \”mingle\” with the customers, would a handful of managers who could relay your concerns to the owners be the same as direct contact with the owner? Probably not.

I wouldn’t want anyone to participate in the forum if they didn’t want to, and don’t blame our new mods for not wanting to. The forum lost a senior instructor who made it a priority to have some involvement. From my computer chair, it looks like a business move to show that \”wow, look how many senior instructors are mods now!\”, until you see they’ve not posted, and all the accts were created within a couple days. I suspect created by one person for the illusion that the top is just as accessible as John was? Good business move, but a little transparent. If we’re going to be like that, let’s make Chuck Norris a mod too… i’m sure he’s too busy to post as well, but equally concerned with krav students receiving quality instruction.

Welcome to the board all u new mods and new leader… feel free to leave your mark in the lurkers thread. Maybe someone can pass that on… 😉

Hey mike, the good news is Bruce Mallen has connections in the movie industry according to bios on the web. Maybe he can land u some parts. 😀

[unstpabl1]

Re:

[quote:ffeb85eb78=\”vwr32\”][]

You act like you’re trying to get away, but u know u like it here. 😛

Hey mike, the good news is Bruce Mallen has connections in the movie industry according bios on the web. Maybe he can land u some parts. :D[/quote:ffeb85eb78]

I live in LA even the waiters have connections 😆

Yeah I like it here,but always felt like I was posting too much on a forum for a system I didn’t take. Though I really like the system and am real supportive of it. It was cool when I thought I might join, but I’m pretty sure thats not going to happen. I live a little too much week to week for the financial arrangements. I need a month to month that I control, because there is always an incidental. I thought maybe I’d do it anyway, but now we’re going into a possible strike year with at least 3 different unions. One we find out in a week or so. They’ve already ratified the strike vote. Last time they went out was 6 months and the stuff on the table this year is a big deal for all 3 unions

I really like the direction of the forum and had backed off posting. I think I went around 2 weeks without a post recently. Read it everyday, just didn’t feel I had anything more to add. I thought that was really cool. Not leaving though. Who’d keep GK in line. Plus when you can’t type,posting eats up a lot of time 😆

[vwr32]

Re:

[quote:07556097d6=\”unstpabl1\”]
I live in LA even the waiters have connections 😆 [/quote:07556097d6]

Um, he was a producer… but I’m sure he’ll appreciate the comparison to the waiters u know. 😆 😆 😆

[giant-killer]

I wouldn’t write off the internet too easily, it’s an important business tool these days. People surf the web, get to a forum like this and it might get them interested and even started. Existing students can get a connection to the home base and communicate with like-minded students around the world.

I also have to say that the personal contact does make a difference, even on other forums. If the leader is moderating and posting, it just gives the impression that you can get your info from the highest level and it might make you more likely to participate. John started the forum years ago and then it was really the only Israeli martial arts forum. Now there are several, and they all still have their leaders as moderators, which gives them a bit of an edge I believe. Also for more elaborate technique questions, if there is no one to answer them, it makes little sense to post them. There have been some nice changes and additions to the forum, still I’ve felt myself losing a bit of interest since John left, especially as far as technique questions are concerned.

_________________
Giantkiller

[unstpabl1]

The difference is the head of the organizations aren’t full time laywers. And yet they didn’t make their versions of krav a household word or a standard for LEO all over the country. KMAA did and to some extent IKMF. Most of them had their little dojo somewhere. KMAA actively went out provide public and LEO seminars in their free time, while holding down full time gigs and raising families.

You can say many things about KMAA, but you can’t deny they made krav what it is today in the US. Its become big business, maybe it needs to go that route to survive. You know I hate corporate. Thats why I’m saying the participation in this forum for you guys to let them know exactly what you expect from your training. What the focus is

On top of which none others will have thje growing pains of an organization that grew as fast as this did.

And yes its easier to have the figure head which John was. People hate changes. Its natural to fight against it, but its too early to tell if this is a good thing or a bad thing. It doesn’t do any good to whine about it the decision has been made. Maybe John wanted out as well. i mean why was he teaching Kardio Krav classes. Remember there are at least 2 types of students training there. Those who train for excercise and the self defense crew both need to co exist to keep the doors open. Its a fine line to walk. Maybe a good business guy can keep the affliates profitable, which makes it easier to enforce quality control.

as too the discussion, your just use to John being the final word. instructors are stepping up, so you get to look at the tech from different POV. In the end its not the technique anyway its the attribute, but thats another thread.

[cav]

Re:

I really appreciated the time John spent on the forums. But I wanted all of you to know that I’m just some guy who is just about to reach his third month of training. In that time I have taken a class with Darren, and Jarret W. has engaged me in several conversations, noticed how I’m progressing, remembered how long I’ve been training, and I’ve observed him teaching many classes, as well as him observing the instructors that were giving me the training. All this despite probably seeing hundreds of people over any week.

So even if they don’t post a lot, from personal experience I guarantee you that they are interested in helping average people like me learn their passion.

And of course I’ve taken numerous classes with James (leejam96) and Sean (CJ’s dad), and they’ve both been immensely helpful, they’re frequently on these boards and from what I know, they’re knowledge and skill is incredibly valuable.

[johnwhitman]

It wasn’t a \”Kardio Krav\” class. It was a mixed martial arts conditioning class, and I did it because it was fun and aggressive and a great way to prep for fighting. 😉 😉

[Author]

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