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Krav Maga is an excellent art, but I am considering cross training.
What are other martial arts that are considered \”street worthy\”
Tai Chi or Fencing are probably not on that list.
Also if you mention an art, please mention one of the best practioners or master of that art.
Even street veteran John Perkins says that tai chi can become street effective because it trains principles of motion thoroughly. But there are very few places that focus on tai chi as a martial art. Especially anything taught in a gym. For tai chi, John Perkins says that Waysun Liao is among the best practitioners of real world tai chi.
I’ve met a group of baguazhang (a similar martial art) people that practice in a very spontaneous fashion, and it looks very street effective. A top practitioner of baguazhang would be John Painter, who is the guy who also teaches traditional bagua and modified bagua PKC, which he teaches to police, court officers, corrections officers and sherrifs. He also has real world experience in things like bodyguarding.
I’d say the most street effective \”internal\” martial art is ki chuan do. Just look at the video clips at attackproof.com for an idea of what its all about. The founder of the system is John Perkins, who was a forensic investigator and a veteran cop (who has a ton of documented real world combat) in Yonkers, New York.
I would consider a number of filipino martial arts street worthy. They take the stance that weapons are a solution and they do a lot of work with empty hands and weapons, where most martial arts focus only on empty hands. No army has ever gone to war with empty hands voluntarilly. Filipino martial arts really focus on the fact that weapons are better than no weapons. They also use realistic weapons for the modern world like knives, sticks, and canes, more than tridents, katanas, spears, etc. I’d put James Keating up there as one of the top guys. I’d also say that Lynn C. Thompson, president of Cold Steel, is in a similar category. In his knife sparring videos, he NEVER gets hit. And he always carries some big knife on him.
As much as combatives people like to talk trash about traditional kung fu, I can’t ignore James Lacy as one of the top guys. He focuses on the fighting application of kung fu, but also gets into the really weird and esoteric aspects of Chinese medicine as it applies to kung fu. But he can break coconuts that are free hanging (not like most who break it against a solid surface). This equates to cracking a skull in a stand up fight. He’s got a lot of interesting articles at http://www.ironpalm.com.
Definitely among the most realistic self defense/combat systems out there is Carl Cestari’s combatives. He has a long martial arts background, but his system draws mostly on WW2 combatives, as well as jujutsu and ols style bareknuckle boxing. His stuff is at http://www.close-combat-video.com and gutterfighting.org (but that one’s under construction). Unlike the other arts mentioned, his emphasizes full body tension as opposed to minimum tension.Fencing definitely USED to be on that list, over 100 years ago. I watched a short video on the basics of real saber fencing, and its very effective. Its simple but very versatile and adaptive. There is five basic defenses, and nine angles of attack. When aimed at different levels, it forms about 135 responses from the basic attacks and defenses. When you add the sneaky wrist rotation from cut to thrust (or back cut), you add about six more things, turning it into 810. The sword can also be used at close quarters by bayonetting (12 options), assisted cutting (about 11 options), pommeling (lets say 4 options), and punching with the guard (lets say another 4) which makes like 841 responses (please don’t try to correct flaws in my math- I know there are some) that are pretty simple. But now mostly olympic fencing is taught (which is definitely not the same), but more importantly no one carries swords anymore. And for self defense drawing a sword is a big motion, but street effective can also apply to street fighting or dueling in the classical sense.
For stand up fighting, I would go with Muay Thai. The solid punching and kicking for ranged attacks, knees and elbows up close, and fighting while in the clinch make for a formidable street worthy style. It also blends well with Krav Maga.
In addition to learning how to deliver punishment, you will also learn how to take it. Muay Thai conditioning is intense. You will not learn any weapon defenses, but you have Krav for that.
If you want a name to go with that, Bas Rutten was a Muay Thai fighter before he started competing in Pancrase. He was one of the first to make his mark by beating grapplers using his devastating striking skills. He is no slouch on the mat either, but he is first and foremost, a power striker.
Don’t waste your time with any traditional style that has you learning forms or katas such as Karate or Tae Kwon Do. The time you spend learning forms is time you could have spent learning how to fight.
I agree with Lex. If you want to work on your RBSP support systems, try MT, boxing, BJJ, submission wrestling, or the like. If you want something for \”fun\”, the Filipino systems are definitely that. As far as Perkins goes, do a little research, and I think you’ll find, well, do a little research. 8)
\”I’d also say that Lynn C. Thompson, president of Cold Steel, is in a similar category. In his knife sparring videos, he NEVER gets hit.\”
😆 🙄What I’ve found that works well with Krav is Tony Blauer’s material. His SPEAR System is very effective, however, you still need a fighting style to back it up. I’ve found that all of his teachings are extremely practical and seemingly effective. Again though, SPEAR still needs a fighting system to compliment it and Krav works for me. Both are very \”full speed\”, dynamic, and aggresive.
I also subscribe to the effectiveness of Kenpo, however, as was posted by the others, I’m not a big fan of Kata’s or forms either. Unless you’re very diligent with learning the Kata’s and actually practicing them against an attacker, I don’t think are of much use in a stressfull, self-defense situation.
I wouldnt bother with blauer if you’re trying to be serious…..
I’d take up lex’s advice
Muay Thai and simple boxing are very good for crosstraining and have proven very effective.
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quote \”Ryan\:I agree with Lex. If you want to work on your RBSP support systems, try MT, boxing, BJJ, submission wrestling, or the like. If you want something for \”fun\”, the Filipino systems are definitely that. As far as Perkins goes, do a little research, and I think you’ll find, well, do a little research. 8)\”I’d also say that Lynn C. Thompson, president of Cold Steel, is in a similar category. In his knife sparring videos, he NEVER gets hit.\”
😆 🙄I agree 100%
Krav Maga, Muay Thai, BJJ the ultimate combo!
Also consider boxing, boxers are tough boys on the street.
I’m a shidan in Bujinkan Taijutsu–it’s a very cool art. I’d still be in it except my class broke up then I found Krav.
Try combat judo or combat sambo(not sport sambo) or take a few strikes from filipino empty hands (dirty boxing). But whatever you do try to keep it within the krav maga concepts of combat. You don’t have to study a whole system in order to get the most useful stuff out of it. 8)
I’m not exactly sure what you mean by research Perkins. I know that there’s a lot of guys with his name (including a guy who writes a lot of books about shamanism) and that there was some sort of conflict on the internet involving this forum and bullshido where one of his students overstepped his bounds and started one of those \”my dad can beat up your dad\”/\”If you were here in real life, you wouldn’t say that\” arguments that abound the internet. Soon after, the attackproof forum went down (which is why I came here) after there was all sorts of talk about some submission fighters coming into his school to prove a point. The old sportfighting vs. deadly strikes thing AGAIN. Its getting old. Anyway, Perkins does have the endorsement of several reputable people- notably Bradley Steiner. But I defend his stuff on the basis that I’ve read his book and practiced the drills in it for like two years, and they have developed a functional level of reactive freedom. Without any firsthand experience, I understand how it can be seen as a hoax. Coming from a traditional background, it was the stuff from Attack Proof that helped me out the most in combatives and krav maga seminars.
But anyway, I don’t mean to start some big argument again. Last time, a really good forum was reduced to childish argument. Believe what you want- the world’s big enough for all of us and its foolish to argue about martial arts that don’t really affect us. But I do encourage you to read the book and watch some of the clips.And Lynn Thompson- I guess what I wrote is sort of an odd thing to say, but I am referring to unchoreographed sparring. Not the most realistic edged weapon representation, but he is very good at long range.
I’ve watched the videos on attackproof.com, and I think they look like complete bull. Now what should I watch?
The contact flow does kind of look like bull I guess. But the elevator stuff is pretty convincing no matter what the background is. But what else can I say? Irreconcilable differences.
Maybe look into Jeet Kune Do. Dan Inosanto (I think that’s the name) was one of Bruce Lee’s original students, and still teaches. A KM black belt named Mike Kanarek started another system, but I really don’t know much about it. Check it out at http://www.fight2survive.com. Also, you might want to try French Savate-mainly leg techniques, with lots of traps, trips, sweeps, etc. Don’t know any big wigs for that one.
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