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Greetings all,
I have been studying the history of Krav Maga and Imi Lichtenfeld since I began the training, Please correct me if I am wrong, I am going from various sources, but the time line or development appears to be something along these lines,
1920’s Imi becomes both a qualified Boxer and Wrestler,
1930’s Imi leads groups of Jewish Wrestlers and Boxers in the Pogroms of Bratislavia against pro Nazi sympathizers.
1940 Imi serves with the British and presumably receives their military training and fights in North Africa.
1942 Imi arrives in Israel, then called Palestine and joins the Defense group later which becomes the IDF.
1940’s Imi trains IDF soldiers in “physical fitness, swimming, wrestling, use of the knife, and defenses against knife attacks”. No mention of Boxing here but presumably this as well.
1940’s-60s, Imi refines his craft and retires from the IDF in 1964, then goes on to open the Krav schools that have led to what we have today.
The two main questions that I have are these,
First off, clearly Krav contains a component of a Martial Art/s which Imi has used to compliment his Boxing and Wrestling techniques, which Martial Art did Imi use to be the basis of Martial Arts in Krav, is it Wing Chun?
Secondly, with the knife and weapons defenses in Krav, did Imi make up his own techniques, or has he studied and used the Phillipine Martial Arts of Kali – Escrima in Krav?
Perhaps its both in that Krav is always evolving and could potentially take additional techniques thought to be necessary, yet if anyone has an answer it would make an interesting discussion anyway!
Re: The Composition of Krav Maga
I’m pretty sure Imi had exposure to Judo and Aikido, perhaps KevinMack can bring a little more to the table there….
Recently I had the chance to look at the USMC Hand to Hand combat manual from 1938. The gun, stick and knife defenses were all amazingly similar to what we do in Krav Maga. I have to believe that Imi was corresponding with the luminaries of the day, such as Applegate and Fairbairn, and that there was cross pollination between Military and Police trainers of the time.
Re: The Composition of Krav Maga
quote Seraphs Coal:Greetings all,I have been studying the history of Krav Maga and Imi Lichtenfeld since I began the training, Please correct me if I am wrong, I am going from various sources, but the time line or development appears to be something along these lines,
1920’s Imi becomes both a qualified Boxer and Wrestler,
1930’s Imi leads groups of Jewish Wrestlers and Boxers in the Pogroms of Bratislavia against pro Nazi sympathizers.
1940 Imi serves with the British and presumably receives their military training and fights in North Africa.
1942 Imi arrives in Israel, then called Palestine and joins the Defense group later which becomes the IDF.
1940’s Imi trains IDF soldiers in “physical fitness, swimming, wrestling, use of the knife, and defenses against knife attacks”. No mention of Boxing here but presumably this as well.
1940’s-60s, Imi refines his craft and retires from the IDF in 1964, then goes on to open the Krav schools that have led to what we have today.
The two main questions that I have are these,
First off, clearly Krav contains a component of a Martial Art/s which Imi has used to compliment his Boxing and Wrestling techniques, which Martial Art did Imi use to be the basis of Martial Arts in Krav, is it Wing Chun?
Secondly, with the knife and weapons defenses in Krav, did Imi make up his own techniques, or has he studied and used the Phillipine Martial Arts of Kali – Escrima in Krav?
Perhaps its both in that Krav is always evolving and could potentially take additional techniques thought to be necessary, yet if anyone has an answer it would make an interesting discussion anyway!
Interesting post. His father taught him boxing and wrestling along with gymnastics. By all accounts he was an outstanding athlete.
In addition to what is commonly known, there is a book called Odyssey written about the Pentcho, which was the name of the ship he fled Europe to get the Palestine, where the author talks about him actively seeking out Germans who were going thru his town harrasing Jews, asking for ID, and all the other things that I don’t need to get into. I imagine that was some real world experience, waiting for them in dark allys, pouncing when he could, avoiding capture. Wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t eliminate a few of them in the process. The SS troops were gaining intel on who he was and he was forced to flee.
When he arrived in Palestine, he fought with the Czech legion during WWII under the British mandate and was no doubt exposed to their H2H.
When he became head instructor of the IDF, he used what he had put to use and continued to refine it to suit the threats of the time.
I’m sure Kevin will chime in with more, but here’s a favorite article of mine where he’s asked what his background is.
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20067113,00.html
Re: The Composition of Krav Maga
The components of Krav Maga are..besides Imi’s background in Boxing,wrestling and gymnastics are the martial arts of Judo,aikido and karate. The system came from Imi’s ideas and original techniques but was also developed with the help of his top student Eli Avikzar. Eli was the first person to ever be granted a black belt in Krav Maga. he was also a black belt in Judo and aikido as was the recipient of the second black belt in Krav Maga…Raphy Elrissi. If you look at the original system you will see boxing,karate,judo,aikido and Imis contributions.
People like to project modern sensibilities on the past and think that imi must have had access to things like Kali/escrima and Wing Chun but you have to remember that up until the late 70s and 80s that stuff was rare even in the United States.israelis did not have as much access to the things that Americans did. Have current KM instructors taken things from Muay Thai,BJJ and Kali? Yes. But Imi’s original system was made up of the things he already knew,what he and his students had access to(judo/aikido/karate) and what was uniquely his own.Re: The Composition of Krav Maga
Also…while Imi was the legend. He was well respected as a fighter and as a gentleman.He was also a genius in regards to some of the techniques and concepts he came up with. But it was Eli and Raphy who were the martial artists. They went out and trained in the other arts in order to strengthen themselves and Imi’s Krav Maga.Together and along with some of Imi’s other early students such as Haim Zut and Shaike Barak they created the art we all love….Krav Maga. In my opinion Eli should be given as much credit for growing the art as Imi. Most of the well known KM instructors started off as students of Eli and most of them received their black belts from him.
Re: The Composition of Krav Maga
Thanks for the various points made here, as I have looked into the history of Krav I admit that I have really only looked at Imi himself, not those that served with him that as you say had that black belt training. I have to confess that to my eye I would very much struggle to tell the difference between different martial arts simply due to not ever having trained in them prior to joining Krav.
I will say that I did think that Krav had something to do with Aikido and early on I mentioned this to someone who quite vehemently stated this was not the case because Krav was all about being “Hard Hard Hard” whereas he found Aikido to be “Soft”. I didn’t bother to argue because again I don’t feel qualified to.
Not to detract from this thread I will start another later on re Krav and Kali/Escrima, yet from a purely historical point of view, it is interesting to see that during the Spanish Inquisition, many Jews yet again fled their nations where the Inquisition was happening and many arrived in the Phillipines from the 16th Century onwards and by 1941 when the Japanese invaded there was a sizable Jewish community. Whilst they were not sent to death camps they were treated very poorly and a number died, they had their property taken as the European jews did and had nothing at the end of the war. It follows that many then emigrated as Refugees to Israel.
That is factual, pure supposition could be several things, one could be that some of those that went to Israel did know of Kali/Escrima from their culture in the Phillipines, alternatively some may have trained in it, especially if they knew the Japanese were coming or once the occupation had begun in order to protect themselves. How that knowledge could make its way to the beginnings of the IDF is anyones guess. Considering the history of the immediate war that began when Israel was created and what went on in the early years of the nation, it could be that they would leave no stone unturned in order to provide protection for themselves, again its pure supposition and nothing else, but it is an interesting subject to study!
Re: The Composition of Krav Maga
quote KevinMack:Also…while Imi was the legend. He was well respected as a fighter and as a gentleman.He was also a genius in regards to some of the techniques and concepts he came up with. But it was Eli and Raphy who were the martial artists. They went out and trained in the other arts in order to strengthen themselves and Imi’s Krav Maga.Together and along with some of Imi’s other early students such as Haim Zut and Shaike Barak they created the art we all love….Krav Maga. In my opinion Eli should be given as much credit for growing the art as Imi. Most of the well known KM instructors started off as students of Eli and most of them received their black belts from him.Rick Blitstein always says the “Eli was a baaaaad man”!
Re: The Composition of Krav Maga
I love these threads that touch on the history and background of Krav.
Kevin, you gotta start working on that book!Re: The Composition of Krav Maga
The starting point for the Krav Maga stick techniques are the KAPAP stick techniques that Imi and other Palmach instructors taught before the creation of Krav Maga. Our stick work is very similar to what was taught at that time. This is a great article written by Noah Gross one of the creators of A.C.T(armed combat tactics) and who has done a ton of research on Haganah and Palmach fighting methods and their history.
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