"There is no First Strike in Karate, only a Block"?

[seraphs-coal]

Greetings All,

I was having somewhat of a philisophical discussion with someone online re martial arts training and he told me that a popular saying around differnet Karate clubs is “There is no first strike in Karate, only a block”.

Let me state outright that I very much respect the art of Karate, I have seen some very high quality martial arts come from those people over many years. At the highest level they can go toe to toe with any martial art and they have produced many fine champions over the years. Its an absorbing art to watch and I suspect to be a practicioner of.

Yet being into philosophy, I did wonder how Krav Maga students feel about the above statement?

My thoughts are that I disagree and that I agree with pre emptive striking if you really feel that you are in danger.

Still those are my own thoughts and I am interested to hear yours!

[doublestrike]

Re: "There is no First Strike in Karate, only a Block"?

I totally agree w/ your point of view. One of the many attributes that drew me to KM was its no-nonsense and brutal effectiveness. The goal is to survive and not get hurt – period. And if that requires one to throw a pre-emptive strike when they feel in danger, then so be it.

I believe that the Karate saying of “There is no first strike, only a block” was meant to emphasize more of the philosophical nature of the art itself to teach its practitioners that Karate should be used for self defense only (i.e. which parallels the philosophy of Buddha, Zen, etc.). I think most martial arts do base their overall teachings with this underlying concept, but I think that the ARTS have overcome the MARTIAL aspects in a lot of styles over time which is further exasperated by poor quality teachers.

[unstpabl1]

Re: "There is no First Strike in Karate, only a Block"?

Remember that after the Japanese surrender of WWII martial arts were banned…they reinvented themselves as a “do” or way…in truth all blocks are strikes

I just watched Kill Or Be Killed on youtube from WWII…it was interesting because it addressed our sense of fair play and the reality of war…I don’t think even with fear of abductions/rape etc that most parents want to deal with reality so things get watered down and martial arts as a way of self imorovement became popular

However the tougher the neighborhood the more combat orientated the parents selections seem to become IMO

I’ve posted here many times that it’s not what system we train in but HOW we train…or what the focus of the instructor is and what oUR personal goals are

That’s why its sooooo important to figure out why you want to train before finding a school

Hope this helps

[kevinmack]

Re: "There is no First Strike in Karate, only a Block"?

Pre-emptive striking is not only a hallmark of Krav Maga but it is also one of the foundations of Israeli military strategy dating all the way back to Orde Wingates advise give to the Haganah and Palmach( predecessors the IDF). It was Wingates strategy and its application by great IDF leaders such as Yitzhak Sadeh and Yigal Allon that led to the founding and defense of the state of Israel in its early days. Later on advisors such as Mickey Marcus improved on thi advice stressing on an aggressive offense as the priority over what seemed like a never ending defense.
A lot of the early IDF military strategy was actually inspired by Prussian military strategy.
After the war of independence the IDF based their strategy on “offense-defense” and it wasnt till around the time of the Yom Kippur war that they switched to “defense-offense” and you can kind of see for yourselves which was a better approach.

Preemption and other aspects of the IDFs Main Doctrine influence our tactics and strategies as Krav Maga fighters. Its in the system from the very begining.

[unstpabl1]

Re: "There is no First Strike in Karate, only a Block"?

quote KevinMack:

Pre-emptive striking is not only a hallmark of Krav Maga but it is also one of the foundations of Israeli military strategy dating all the way back to Orde Wingates advise give to the Haganah and Palmach( predecessors the IDF). It was Wingates strategy and its application by great IDF leaders such as Yitzhak Sadeh and Yigal Allon that led to the founding and defense of the state of Israel in its early days. Later on advisors such as Mickey Marcus improved on thi advice stressing on an aggressive offense as the priority over what seemed like a never ending defense.
A lot of the early IDF military strategy was actually inspired by Prussian military strategy.
After the war of independence the IDF based their strategy on “offense-defense” and it wasnt till around the time of the Yom Kippur war that they switched to “defense-offense” and you can kind of see for yourselves which was a better approach.

Preemption and other aspects of the IDFs Main Doctrine influence our tactics and strategies as Krav Maga fighters. Its in the system from the very begining.

Kevin brings up excellent points about krav

But this is also the progression karate took after WWII..it became a defensive system philosophical…and rarely taught the offensive mind or the aggressive mindset as it focused on “DO” or being aWAY of self development. However its roots are military and 1st strike is there just not taught in most cases

In karate a block is a strike..it was meant as attack

There is kung fu san soo which one of the main principles is Hit 1st and Often…it teaches the Fut Ga family which is totally offensive in technique..when you look at the techs in the system you get the sense of it as an original martial system…Fut Ga psychology has been removed from the modern karate to make it more PC

I’m not going to argue the merits of san soo or any other systems but a system like kenpo can be very offensive minded if trained that way. Kyokushin is very aggressive as it stands. A lot of the Dutch k1 greats had it as their base art. I’m simply trying to point out like Kevin that the tactics offensive – defensive may have changed in the way it is taught but it doesn’t mean that the techniques don’t avail themselves to the proper mindset

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