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Is the concept of Verbal Judo something that goes well hand in hand with krav maga, or do the concepts crash? Anyone with experience from both that might know?
refering to this:
Re: Verbal Judo?
I’d say they go hand in hand. The best course of self defense is to avoid being caught in such situations in the first place (being aware of where you’re at, who is around you, etc.) Obviously sometimes even if you’re vigilant and find yourself in a situation, verbal de-escalation is the next best choice. If you find that you are in imminent physical harm, that’s when your Krav training should come into play… not when some guy is posturing and you go from 0-120 mph on him.
Re: Verbal Judo?
Yeah, well – I take it for granted they sort of go hand in hand as far as the intention of avoiding conflict. I guess my question is;
Does your krav maga school teach de-escalating, how to deal with your own nerves, how to act/talk durring an escalation of a potential attacker?
Anyone training KMG here might wanna fill me in if I will learn much of above mentioned? My impression is that KMG does teach all these things, but I dont know to what degree?
As I see it – krav maga should have strong focus in all this, as much as physical techniques.
Re: Verbal Judo?
George Thompson verbal judo presentation at Columbia Business School – hour and a half long video…
Re: Verbal Judo?
At KMW it really depends on the instructor… I’ve only had 2 instructors actually speak about the topic of verbal de-escalation but it wasn’t even that in-depth. I do wish that KMW would incorporate more verbal de-escalation but I may have to take a look at Verbal Judo it fill that role instead.
Thanks for the link Don.
Re: Verbal Judo?
@Don, as a subset of this topic, got any tips for how to act around gang bangers? I’ve mostly lived in small towns so I haven’t had to deal with gangs very much — crazy individuals yes but gangs not so much.Let’s say I find myself walking down the wrong street in the wrong part of LA and there are a bunch of guys hanging out and giving me the eye. Obviously, projecting an air of self confidence and not insulting or “disrespecting” them are important. But what is likely to set them off?
Would crossing the street be a sign of fear?
Should I say hi or keep quiet?
Look them in the eye or avoid eye contact?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Re: Verbal Judo?
Hey Catapult, I’m no expert but I’ve dealt with my share. Tough question! It’s like asking what’s the best answer for when a POS gang banger asks you “where you from?” I have yet to hear an answer that will keep the person being asked from being attacked (of course, IF there IS someone wandering around who Does know the “right” answer, I wouldn’t hear about it either because he wouldn’t have gotten attacked and we wouldn’t have been called – lol)
IME, gang bangers are unpredictable, especially the younger ones. Sometimes, they’ll hassle you only if the opportunity presents itself and they don’t have to make an extra effort. Other times, they’re actually out and about actively looking for people to screw with or assault/rob/whatever. Likewise, you never know what might set one off – looking at them could make them think you’re challenging them, looking away could make them think you’re scared and an easy target, etc.
I think avoidance is the best strategy. The more of them hanging out together, the braver they are. Many times, they’ll be criminal with just 2 or 3 of them together – the more there are though, the greater chance that one will do something “just because” or to prove something to someone else. Plus, wherever they are congregating is probably their hood/turf – some neighborhood punks expect you to get their permission first before stepping in and/or passing through.
From talking with a variety of street people, usually older guys, two approaches seem to have had some limited success – 1. being crazy religious (“I roll with the man upstairs and you can’t touch him. The man upstairs knows all and sees all and he’s watching me and watching you.”, etc) and 2. being crazy (bouncing along, twitching, talking to yourself, and shouting at invisible pets bothering you)…
😀
Re: Verbal Judo?
Thanks for the street smarts, Don. Sounds like the Nike defense may be the best one when it comes down to it. :):
Re: Verbal Judo?
Just one person’s opinions catapult, but you’re welcome!
IF I lived in or had to regularly walk through an infested area (and I had no other alternatives), something I MIGHT consider doing is to try to establish a minor/superficial rapport with the usual suspects. IMO, I would have a better chance of “getting to know” (even if it’s limited to just a regular nod or wave in passing) a gang banger if/when I can catch him when he’s by himself or with his family. This would be done with the hopes that the ones who recognize me might put in a good word for me the next time I see them out in a group.
Remember, the above is for ME personally – I’m not advocating, encouraging, or recommending in any way!
Re: Verbal Judo?
quote Don:Just one person’s opinions catapult, but you’re welcome!IF I lived in or had to regularly walk through an infested area (and I had no other alternatives), something I MIGHT consider doing is to try to establish a minor/superficial rapport with the usual suspects. IMO, I would have a better chance of “getting to know” (even if it’s limited to just a regular nod or wave in passing) a gang banger if/when I can catch him when he’s by himself or with his family. This would be done with the hopes that the ones who recognize me might put in a good word for me the next time I see them out in a group.
Remember, the above is for ME personally – I’m not advocating, encouraging, or recommending in any way!
Hmm, I must say that this bothers me – if this is “the best” answer krav maga (I know it was just your opinion – but I would have thought KM would have taught something on the matter) has to offer… As the situation catapult describes probably is one fairly common (it goes as very relevant for me too, actually pretty much exactly why I started this thread, and perhaps also one of the main reasons why I see the need to train). I really hope this is not general (and especially regarding KMG) and that there is training in these matters???
Otherwise it´s like KM is missing a BIG piece of the puzzle. And from what little I know, Don´s suggestions could be rather dangerous. Then again I am no expert.
Re: Verbal Judo?
quote Southofheaven:Hmm, I must say that this bothers me – if this is “the best” answer krav maga (I know it was just your opinion – but I would have thought KM would have taught something on the matter)1. I should have made it clear that my answers/opinions/thoughts are NOT necessarily reflective of or endorsed by Krav Maga Worldwide. I do not work for KMWW and do not represent them except in goodwill and sometimes during specific law enforcement related training.
2. I believe that the general consensus among many is that Awareness, Common Sense, and Good Decision Making are Key concepts in maintaining your personal safety. Did you miss the point I made that Avoidance is usually your best bet in dealing with possible physical conflict/altercation?
3. What do you expect ANY self-defense school/system to teach when possibly dealing with a group of unpredictable, likely to be armed with more than one deadly weapon, street criminals? And IF something is taught, do you expect whatever is taught to be 100% effective, 100% of the time, for 100% of all situations?
has to offer… As the situation catapult describes probably is one fairly common (it goes as very relevant for me too, actually pretty much exactly why I started this thread, and perhaps also one of the main reasons why I see the need to train). I really hope this is not general (and especially regarding KMG) and that there is training in these matters???
Again, what kind of training are you expecting to get? Verbal judo, tactical communications is great but not 100%. Any self-defense technique is also not 100% (even our lethal weapons are not guaranteed to be immediately effective in stopping the threat 100% of the time). What do You think Should be taught or trained???
Otherwise it´s like KM is missing a BIG piece of the puzzle. And from what little I know, Don´s suggestions could be rather dangerous. Then again I am no expert.
If you think that KM is So incomplete, then by all means look around and see if you can find something with All the answers. And IF you do find something with All the answers, please, come back and help your fellow human beings – let everyone know.
Because you find my previously posted “suggestions” (funny, I don’t remember saying anyone should try what I was writing, what I might do for MYSELF) “rather dangerous”, here are a few more:
don’t go where the criminals hang out
take a different route
move out of the area
change schools
change jobs
get some armed body guards
buy a tank and use that when traveling through the worst neighborhoods:rolleyes:
Re: Verbal Judo?
Common sense is not specific to Krav Maga. I grew up in Venice during the late 70’s race riots (think American history x) then moved to a worse area of Van Nuys. Long before I’d ever heard of Krav Maga I knew where and when I could walk around the neighborhoods and what to do to avoid confrontation.
Respect is a big issue with common gang bangers, I understand the code they live by, respect its rules and make it clear I’m not a threat to them in any way and I have no issues.
I work “urban night” sometime at popular Hollywood night spots and find myself in life threatening situations on a regular basis. By using terms such as “no disrespect intended” “I’m coming at you correctly” “I’m not being aggressive, I’m just talking to you trying to find out your side of the story” it elevates the need for the aggressive party to escalate the situation. Let me be clear, I’m not a “guard a rope bouncer” I’m a VIP host, which is a fancy term for if sh1ts going south they call me to respond to a table.
I have learned to “cultivate allies” in the group which tends to come in handy should situations arise the ally will usually step in and says “he’s cool bro, I know this cat” which further defuses the situation. Especially if you can reason with said ally to the extent of “handle your boy bro we don’t need any trouble” the ally then turns into your advocate and handles the situation for you.
Having said that, if the situation does unfortunately escalate THAT’S when my Krav Maga training takes over I’m able to disarm the weapon and hand the individual over to one of Dons counter parts for booking.
Rather you’re on the street or in a nightclub the only white guy surround by literally a 1000 intoxicated gangbangers the same rules apply. You’re in their space respect them.
The moral to the story is something I hammer on in these forums all the time, situational awareness, knowing your surroundings, the people in them and how to navigate them so at the end of the day….
We go home safe.
Re: Verbal Judo?
Don made it pretty clear to me it was only his opinion.
Situational awareness is a big key and to not be aware of those around you (good or bad) would be a mistake. Am I saying make buddy-buddy with gang bangers, no but knowing who they are is one less thing to worry about.
What CJ’s Dad said I’ve definitely seen when I was growing up in New York. You’d be surprised how well that works.
I have learned to “cultivate allies” in the group which tends to come in handy should situations arise the ally will usually step in and says “he’s cool bro, I know this cat” which further defuses the situation. Especially if you can reason with said ally to the extent of “handle your boy bro we don’t need any trouble” the ally then turns into your advocate and handles the situation for you.
Re: Verbal Judo?
quote CJs Dad:By using terms such as “no disrespect intended” “I’m coming at you correctly” “I’m not being aggressive, I’m just talking to you trying to find out your side of the story” it elevates the need for the aggressive party to escalate the situation.I’m not sure I follow that one, CJ’s Dad. Are you saying we should say things like that or we shouldn’t say things like that.
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