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Re: what to do on the plane?
Interesting writeup about the Payne incident from the owner of the charter company, apparently the pilot was a retired USAF Major who had been an instructor in low oxygen scenarios:
Re: what to do on the plane?
quote Chocolate Soldier:Interesting writeup about the Payne incident from the owner of the charter company, apparently the pilot was a retired USAF Major who had been an instructor in low oxygen scenarios:Thanks, I hadn’t seen that before.
And I’m sure everyone that flies for the US military spends some time in a hypobaric chamber during training. I did once in a chamber, and once for real. The chamber was when my brother in law was in his navy primary flight school. We were visiting and got to go in it. We started doing something stupid simple like playing patty cake. As the pressure dropped, it got harder and harder to do it. You could tell something wasn’t right, but couldn’t do much about it.
And one time was for real – I was flying in the right seat of a friend’s King Air. We were taking the owner of the company to New Orleans, and they let 3 of us come along. On the way back, the two guys in the back were drunk and loud and getting a little annoying. So my friend flying motioned for me to put on my O2 cannula. We were at about 25,000 feet, and he gradually dumped the cabin pressure to about 15,000 feet. The guys in the back fell asleep in about 30 seconds. Before he repressurized it, he had me take mine off to see why O2 is required for all occupants above 14,000 feet. As I started getting sleepy myself, he raised it back to 8,000 ft and we had a peaceful ride home. The two meatheads in the back slept the rest of the way back to Dallas.
But if it was a rapid decompression, it would be the same effect as a tight rear naked choke – you’d have literally seconds before unconsciousness. And the temperature above 24,000 feet and above is ALWAYS below zero, so unconsciousness would be death in a very short time.
Re: what to do on the plane?
Mr. Watkins can say what he wants, however, there was a huge accident chain being constructed with plenty of oppportunity to break it. the last link was forged with hypoxia.
Re: what to do on the plane?
Thanks to all for your relies. I remember reading about most of the instances stated in the posts above. I guess, inside, I new that a hole in the fuselage from a projectile would most likely not be catastrophic. Further, I guess I attribute my orginal posts to seeing too many movies. Great responses by all. Thanks again.
Re: what to do on the plane?
I’d like to apologise to the OP cmetalman for the turn the thread took into some more alarming areas – perhaps not the best for someone who is an anxious flier..
Just wanted to point out that flying is statistically a very safe practice, especially with any mainstream respected carrier & that the industry is highly regulated, pilots and flight attendants are highly trained..
Recognizing that there is some personal anxiety due the loss of control is a big step toward reducing the stress levels anyway since you can identify why & the anxiety is not connected to other uncertain, nebulous factors. Nothing to be embarrassed about since this typically at the root of flying anxiety for most people. The fact is flying on a passenger aircraft means that you do hand over the reins completely to 3rd parties and external circumstances which is an unusual situation, certainly for those who are used to being more in charge of the plan of getting from A to B such as driving a car etc.
The chances are no unpleasant things will happen so enjoy the trip!
Re: what to do on the plane?
Chocolate Soldier, thanks and no problem I ‘ve found the replies interesting and informative.
Re: what to do on the plane?
Received my photo passport this week, I look tired and stressed out. Wife said thats ok cause thats the way I’ll be looking by the time I/we get on the plane.
Re: what to do on the plane?
Im sick and tired of these mother fn snakes on this mother fn plane!!!!
Re: what to do on the plane?
:OhMy:I wassn’t afraid to fly till I read this threadrofl2Actually found it interesting. I was so into planes when I ws a kid.
Had a point where I got claustraphobia after having my head buried in the stuff they use to make masks for films. It was odd as it progressed to elevatators and then to planes…panic attack type stuff…I still get tinges, but I cured myself of it by turning the lights off and sitting in closets till I could settle myself…visualizing and affirming
Re: what to do on the plane?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8547329.stm
Boeing 747 survives simulated ‘Flight 253’ bomb blast
A test explosion on a Boeing 747 has shown that a US Christmas Day flight would have landed safely even if a bomb on board was detonated successfully.
The plane’s fuselage did not break in the controlled blast, which used the same explosives that were on Flight 253 from Amsterdam to Detroit.
However experts said it showed the suspected bomber and the passenger next to him would have been killed.
Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, has denied attempting to murder 289 people.
The controlled experiment was carried out for the BBC Two documentary How safe are our Skies? Detroit Flight 253.
It would have been quite horrific – obviously the blast itself would cause eardrum rupture 
Dr John Wyatt, international terrorism and explosives expert
Dr John Wyatt, an international terrorism and explosives adviser to the UN, replicated the conditions on board the Detroit flight on a decommissioned Boeing 747 at an aircraft graveyard in Gloucestershire, England.
The same amount of the explosive pentaerythritol (or PETN) allegedly carried by Mr Abdulmutallab was placed to mirror the location where he was sitting on the plane.
Captain J Joseph, an air accident investigator, and Dr Wyatt both concluded that the quantity of explosive used was nowhere near enough needed to rupture the skin of a passenger plane.
Dr Wyatt said: “If it was a more rigid material then we might have seen a crack or breakthrough but this is actually quite a flexible material.
“I was extremely impressed by the aircraft structure.
“It can sustain quite a hefty thump.”Captain Joseph said: “We noticed the aircraft had lost some rivets but no flight controls were compromised and certainly no fuel tanks were breached.
“I’m very confident that the flight crew could have taken this aeroplane without any incident at all and get it on the ground safely.”
Body partsHowever, the experts said that the death of the suspected bomber and the passenger sitting next to him would have been traumatic for passengers.
After seeing… how well the aircraft maintained its structural integrity, and obviously the pilot’s capacity to fly the aircraft, it should give them (passengers) a great deal of confidence Captain J Joseph, air accident investigator
“It would have been quite horrific. Obviously the blast itself would cause eardrum rupture,” said Dr Wyatt.
Captain Joseph said the noise and the smoke would have been awful, “not to mention the parts of the bodies that were disintegrated as part of the explosion”.
But Captain Joseph said the experiment could help to put air travellers at ease: “I think this should be a confidence-builder for passengers.
“After seeing… how well the aircraft maintained its structural integrity, and obviously the pilot’s capacity to fly the aircraft, it should give them a great deal of confidence.”
For security reasons, they could not go into specific details of blast damage inside the cabin of the test Boeing 747.
Kip Hawley, the former head of the US Transportation Security Administration (TSA) said: “We can be sure that al Qaeda and others have taken lessons from their failed attempt and this program allows the public to be privy to some of those lessons.
“An active and engaged public can not only be a layer of security but can be more effective in demanding the kind of security that will work.
“The explosives analysis done by Dr John Wyatt gave a realistic picture of the effects of a carry-on bomb roughly similar to the one used on Christmas Day.
“The point that today’s airframes are more resilient than many imagine is a critical point.
“Governments do very sophisticated testing similar to what Dr Wyatt demonstrated and those results inform security measures you see in airports today.
“Specifically, it was that kind of testing that led to the decision to allow 100ml of any liquid, carried in a sealed one-quart baggie, to be brought through security.”
Dr Wyatt’s test results are to be shared with governments and aviation security experts around the world.
FLIGHT 253
Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, a Nigerian, is accused of trying to blow up the plane with a device hidden in his underwear
Officials say he planned to detonate it using a syringe filled with chemicals
Instead he caused a fire and was overpowered by passengers
He faces life imprisonment if convicted
Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula says it was responsible for the failed attack
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