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I am curious. Why is affiliation with a KM body like KMWW or IKMF so important? I have been thinking about this since I started Krav 11 months ago. I get the impression instructors of martial arts like taekwondo, kickboxing judo, mma etc don’t need an affiliation with a body to teach and it’s generally not looked at as a requirement to teach (as far as I know). Also, a lot of people taking these martial arts don’t look for an affiliation with a governing body, yet in Krav it seems to be very important. The majority of comments I hear or read is that you should train with a school that is officially affiliated. Is this a marketing ploy and an attempt to keep Krav constrained to a small number of controlling groups for exclusivity and profit benefits, or are there real and important reasons that put Krav in a category of requiring affiliation to teach?
My thinking would suggest, that like martial arts, when you know it and have ranked in it, you should be able to teach what you know (whilst keeping up to date), without being affiliated. I may be wrong though, which is the reason for this thread. I know Krav is not a martial art in the usual form (or at all), but we learn civilian Krav, which, I would assume is toned down from military or law enforcement styles, where an affiliation would be an important requirement.
I am not implying anything; I just want to know the general consensus.
BTW, I have no plans to teach Krav, I am only a beginner training for 11 months.
Apologies if this has been discussed before.
Thanks.
Re: Why is affiliation so important?
This is simply my opinion… but I think a governing body is very important because it sets a standard to be taught. With that, it has the power to revoke its endorsement of a school based on substandard practices. Right now, I am working on my doctorate. If I wanted I could teach archaeology at Joe’s Bait Shop, Grill and Tire Store but I could give my students wrong information like the Inuit were a tribe in the amazon who worshipped the Sun God Ra. If I taught that at the university where I am matriculating, I would be tossed on my fat butt quicker than you can say “quidditch”. Joe’s Bait Shop, Grill and Tire Shop (in most cases) wouldn’t care what I taught as long as everyone had a paid tuition.
Re: Why is affiliation so important?
I’ll have to disagree with the original post (based on my own experience only). I believe traditional martial arts have to be afiliated with the association that governs the particular art they teach. Otherwise they could not promote belt ranking with out approval of the affiliated association. Take Taekwondo for example. If a person has learned and trained in ATA Taekwondo and starts his own school, he must be approved by the ATA and WTTU if he wants his students to progress in their belt rankings and/or receive the benefits of the association. An ATA instructor certainly could not certify students under WTF or ITF rules and vise versa. I think the same holds true with other TMAs like Karate, Judo, BJJ, Kung Fu, etc.
Re: Why is affiliation so important?
This is probably going to piss some people off, but thats the way I roll.
An affiliation or certification process is important because it says you went through a course to learn to teach not be a student.
Just because you have your blackbelt in some style doesnt mean you can teach. There are so many people out there that shouldnt be teaching, KM, BJJ, Kung fu, and MMA. They make stuff up and are basically taking money from students.
One of the first principles any real martial artist learns is integrity. Thing is most martial artists forget that one when money gets involved.
Alot of instructors think that by testing and getting there blackbelt they automatically can teach and can now go open there school. I see the same in MMA.
If you have fought or have some wrestling experience that is great, but that doesnt mean you can teach either one. They just dont want too take the time to learn how to be a coach and instructor and or get told they are not instructors or even just start over as a white belt.
Just because you wrestled or fought doesnt mean you know how to coach wrestling or MMA. The worst is when, I get to the fights and the so called coaches/ instructors are trying to figure out how to hold focus mitts, tape hands and or they are finally trying to teach there students something 5 minutes before they fight.
If you have a certified Krav Maga instructor or MMA instructor then it lets the consumer know they had completed the qualifications to teach. They understand more than just a basic student.
More and more MMA schools are opening and most dont have certified instructors and even know the basics correctly. Even MMA certifications programs are popping up everywhere, but you really should look at the main instructors and what makes them able to teach these type of courses. There is really only three out there – MFS, ATT and BRMMA.
Re: Why is affiliation so important?
[quote=Oneness;44260]This is probably going to piss some people off, but thats the way I roll. quote]
I like the way you roll!
Re: Why is affiliation so important?
I think it’s certainly important from a business perspective, but there’s more to it than that. When you attach a brand name to a product or service, it’s assumed that the quality promised behind that name will be delivered to the paying consumer.
KMWW, for example, sets a curriculum and adheres to uniform standards of proficiency for advancement through the ranks. Because of this, any practitioner in an affiliated school should be able to train and even test at any other affiliated school. Through affiliation, we can rest assured we’re all getting the genuine, quality article as deciced upon by the heads of the org as well as receiving proper instruction.
As for a certified instructor teachnig without affiliation, this could potentially enable a free-for-all as Skelegirl suggested, with little or no assurance that the consumer is getting what they pay for.
Assume I worked at McDonalds for several years and was trained to make the perfect Big Mac. This doesn’t afford me license to make burgers in my backyard and sell them to the public with a McDs wrapper on them as the real deal. The same could go for any product: without an affiliation with an organization that assures that standards are adhered to, there’s simply no guarantee of real quality behind the product.
Re: Why is affiliation so important?
I have to agree with Oneness regarding teaching. I’ve seen how hard my instructors work at what they do. It’s one thing to know how to do the moves. It’s a whole different ball of wax to teach that to someone else and communicate it effectively.
I wanna know whomever is instructing my classes knows what the heck they’re doing. Being at Pete’s, there’s no doubt of that when you see the quality of teaching. It just makes me very proud how far Pete’s place has come in the 5 years hubby and I have been members there.thumbsup
Re: Why is affiliation so important?
quote Oneness:An affiliation or certification process is important because it says you went through a course to learn to teach not be a student.Hear, hear! I had to meet with an attorney today that is representing a union during contract negotiations. I am being asked to appear before an arbitrator as a training subject matter expert for certain disciplines in my vocation. On the list of items that the attorney wants from me are copies of my instructor certifications to present to the panel. How much credibility would I have without those instructor certifications?
Re: Why is affiliation so important?
quote Oneness:This is probably going to piss some people off, but thats the way I roll.I’ve seen how Oneness rolls in person… it hurts just thinking about it.
Re: Why is affiliation so important?
I agree with all the posts above, but also personally think it’s possible for an officially affiliated instructor to lie to students and make up techniques to fit in with his/her opinions or greed.
Re: Why is affiliation so important?
Dirty Harry is your view about instructors making up techniques etc from personnal experience?
Personally i think any instructor training for the number of years required to get to their level should of by now formed their own opinions/preferences about the techniques they teach & i have no problem with them putting their opinions across as long as they make it clear that they are expressing their own personal opinions. In a sense i welcome such comments as it can give you a better insight into the strengths & weaknesses of certain techniques.
As to the initial question i think affiliation is important but that doesnt mean that people who arent affiliated couldnt be just as good if not better instructors than someone who is affiliated. Saying that by using a club that is affiliated you take out the risk factor of getting a “dud” instructor. To be honest if i was starting out my training again i would simply go to all the schools in a 50 mile radius & draw my own opinions on which was better, though i am completley happy where i train now.
Teaching is a skill in & of itself, just because you know something doesnt mean you can teach it.
Re: Why is affiliation so important?
quote Cearball:Dirty Harry is your view about instructors making up techniques etc from personnal experience?No, it’s not. It’s a logical counterpoint to the notion that an affiliated instructor is more accurate and trust-worthy than a non-affilated one. Anyone can distort material to suit thir own needs.
I guesse it comes down to trusting your instructor.
Re: Why is affiliation so important?
I found an instructor near where I am going to be moving, but when I contacted him he tells me he is not affiliated with any Krav Maga organization.
Is there any way I can check on this guy to find out if he is the real deal?
Re: Why is affiliation so important?
quote DevilNuts:I found an instructor near where I am going to be moving, but when I contacted him he tells me he is not affiliated with any Krav Maga organization.Is there any way I can check on this guy to find out if he is the real deal?
Ask him where he recieved his certifications from, look for his certificate of rank on his walls, etc… that’s about all you can do. If he is legit, IMO he would be with IKMF or KMW. He may have broke from them at some point, but he should have certifications from some of these organizations that showes he went through some extensive program.
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