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On the KMAA website, it states that \”KRAV MAGA IS NOT A TRADITONAL MARTIAL ART [emphasis by KMAA]. No katas. No rituals.î
However, Al stated in another thread: \”I had no idea [Krav Maga] was a hardcore self defense system, and not a martial art. What web site did you learn that tidbit from. Ever been to a class? Why do we \”bow in\” and \”bow out\” at the begining and end of class? Why do we wear a uniform? Seems kind of like a martial art to me. Look up the definition of a martial art and I think you’ll be surprised to see that Krav fits most of the requirements to be classified as such.\”
So is Krav Maga a martial art or not? And what makes it one or the other? Iím interested in understanding this because I am looking to learn effective methods of self-defense without being trapped in with people with a MA mentality (due to some bad experiences).
There’s no bowing or uniforms at my KM school.
A lot of people wear KM shirts, as a sign of solidarity, but it isn’t required. I think the instructors would get a good laugh if I bowed to them… heh, perhaps I should do that next class. 🙂
Please let me clarify a few things.
The quote that is taken from my post is heavily laced with sarcasm. Krav is a hardcore self defense system.
While I personally consider Krav Maga to be a martial art, it is in NO WAY a traditional martial art. At my school, we do a quick standing bow to get everyone focused at the start of class, and a quick bow at the end of class to signify that we are done with that class. The uniform I soke of is a Krav Maga T-shirt. I call my teachers by there first name, not a title like \”Sensei\” or \”Master\”. It is a martial art in the sense that the techniques were developed for use in combat or war. Krav Maga has taken these techniques and applied them to common self defense and fight situations.
It is not a traditional art in the sense of being a \”do\” or way, where much of the focus is often on spiritual developement and personal growth.
My teacher often uses the quote \”All martial, no art\” when he is describing Krav.
I apologize for any confusion that my earlier post has created for anyone.
Well, I meant my post to be a bit sarcastic too… in a good natured way of course. Sorry if it came out wrong.
Well, according to Dictionary.com:
martial art
n. Any of several Asian arts of combat or self-defense, such as aikido, karate, judo, or tae kwon do, usually practiced as sport. Often used in the plural.I like the \”all martial, no art\” explaination. I may have use that one in the future. When people ask me what KM is all about and I attempt to explain the self defense vs martial art thing they tend to give me the same look my dog does when I try to explain philosophy to him.
As for bowing, we always do the \”one line\” thing when we start and finish the class w/ a group clap at the end.
How are the instructors when it comes to students asking questions? For example, if something the instructor demonstrates looks dubious, are students allowed to question it to the instructor? Are students allowed to experiment with different tools or techniques or are they expected to do what the instructor tells them to do?
In other words, is Krav Maga an evolving form of self-defense or must it remain as Imi Lichtenfeld taught it?
I think my class bears some strong resemblances to a traditional martial art, but it many more ways, it does not. Meaning: some of the TKD/Karate/JJ mentality is present when we \”bow out\” , etc, but the style of fighting and the purpose of learning the material is way off base from a \”martial art\”. Krav Maga is 100% brutal self defense whereas I believe (MY OPINION GENTLEMEN) most martial arts are more tournement driven.
It could be confusing for someone looking in from the outside, I sure was confused. When I try to explain to friends and family what Krav Maga is, they give me that same look that CarpeCanis’s dog gives him… I soon gave up and just tell them I go to class to get beat up and return such favors to my fellow compadres.
My instructor welcomes questions, it is how the class learns. In my particular class, the instructor would rather you learn what he has taught you before trying to do it differently. After you learn it, he may go over with you other ways of doing the same things and he welcomes your input… He basically just wants to make sure you have it down before trying to change it up.
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quote \”curious\:How are the instructors when it comes to students asking questions? For example, if something the instructor demonstrates looks dubious, are students allowed to question it to the instructor? Are students allowed to experiment with different tools or techniques or are they expected to do what the instructor tells them to do?In other words, is Krav Maga an evolving form of self-defense or must it remain as Imi Lichtenfeld taught it?
I train with Al – Our instructors are very open to questions and comments, and are great about clarifying what is being taught. Similarly, if you say \”why not do it this way instead?\” they will tell, and often show you why not to \”do it that way\” (and sometimes it hurts!) 😯 😆 However, I would imagine that it varies amongst instructors / schools.
I’m not sure what you mean by \”something looking dubious\” which implies to me that what is being taught, is being taught \”wrong\” or that it is the \”wrong\” technique / defnense for the given attack. I doubt you meant it that way, but if so, I’d humbly suggest that that is likely the wrong way to go anywhere, to learn anything. In other words, you have to be open to learning this, or any other system – Not go in knowing everything … That being said – I believe the KMAA strives to keep the teaching pure – There is a reason that the techniques are what they are, and that they are taught the way that they are taught … That reason is because the techniques, and the way they are taught are both VERY effective!
That doesn’t mean that if you’re attacked, and you perform a different technique and prevail, that you’ve failed – Quite the opposite! However, while KM is evolving (in fact the open circle around the hebrew KM is symbolic of allowing new techinques in while filtering others out) I again think that there is emphasis on keeping the system pure.
Curious, one of the questions I love the most when teaching is the question \”why?\”
Of course, one has to account for the attitude with which someone is asking. But some of my favorite teaching moments have come when someone sincerely doesn’t understand the reasoning for Krav Maga’s manner of addressing a certain threat. It is at that point more than any other that I’m no longer teaching a choke release or a combative, but a way of thinking that applies to threats of all kinds, and one can see threaded throughout the entire system.
As far as it evolving, it definitely does. I’m sure 100 years from now there will be weapons that we have not currently conceived of, and they will need to be defended against. Krav Maga will be there to ask the questions: 1)What’s the immediate danger? 2) How do I simultaneously counter-attack? etc.
Krav Maga is a martial art that has not lost the purpose it was developed for. I have the utmost respect for all martial arts, but understanding the goal of the practice is key here. Kendo and Ido are beautiful arts with deep tradition and funtionality. There is little NEED for Sword arts in modern times, therefore the goal is not self-defence. TKD has shifted toward sport, while still maintining its self-defence abilities, Each art has a specific goal. Since Krav Maga focuses on Self defence in all situtations, it has to keep evolving, since the danger keeps evolving. There is less tradition and ritual (ie none), but the focus is the same. To train its practioners to defend themselves and become stronger in the process.
Rememebr \”so that one may walk in peace\”. I live this and believe it to my core. I am never worried or scered in almost any situtation. I know what to do, and when to leave.
I’m not recalling who it was right now, but someone big into martial \”arts\” preferred to call them \”martial sciences\”. The thought is the term \”art\” speaks to a creative, aesthetically pleasing endeavor. According to the ancient Greeks, \”art\” was anything that was humanly created that was beautiful.
Krav Maga has little, if any, artistic value compared to other, true martial arts. For a black belt rank in another style, I had to compose a weapons kata that would be presented as a part of my test, then used for kata competition. It was a greatly worthwhile goal, and I was challenged and had fun in the process. I think I did a pretty good job with it, but the simple fact is that the whole process had nothing to do with improving my ability to deal with a realistic attack.
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quote \”KravMDjeff\:… one can see threaded throughout the entire system.As far as it evolving, it definitely does. I’m sure 100 years from now there will be weapons that we have not currently conceived of, and they will need to be defended against. …
The lead instructor/owner at the KM gym here in Kansas City has talked about avoiding \”karatifying\” your KM technique. What he means by this is, don’t make your technique follow the same pattern all the time (like a kata) or always expect you oponent to do X when you do Y. He has emphasized that you should learn the KM techniques and be prepared to use them in dynamic combinations as needed.
As for future wepons we had quite a thread a while back about tazers and how to deal with them. I don’t think we came up with any good answers on that.
So if I understand correctly, Krav Maga consists of techniques that one must learn to perform before being able try different things in a class environment? What happens if a student has difficulty performing a technique, say, because of a disability?
Krav maga does consist of specific self defense techniques, typically which occur with a sinultaneous (and specific) counter attack. The fight after performing that thechique is \”freestyle\” and learned through mastering combatives (strikes and kicks) as well as experience.
From my experience I’d say there are a few options reqgrding difficulty performing techniques … Instructors (at least where I train) will spend time with you \”one on one\” helping you with the technique, though as you might imagine, not to the degree that it hurts the whole class … When I’ve had difficulty with something specific, for example I have a tough time with footwork sometimes, the instructors will take me and my partner through it a little more slowly and observe specifically where I ned help, then try to correct it. Also, you can do private lessons (if available) which I’ve done a few times. When I do that, I like to work on footwork and fludity as well as sparring, but I also have asked for help with specific techniques.
Your example of having a disability is a little vague – I’d guess that generally speaking one would try to tailor the specific technique if, and as needed. However at some point it may not be possible – if you’re missing two arms it’s going to be difficult to teach you to punch effectively 😉 . Where I train we have not one, but two students who have prosthetics (single legs)… They are truly inspiring, tough as nails, and train as hard, if not harder than the rest of us … I’d have a difficult time after watching them, letting someone \”off the hook\” unless something was absolutely impossible for them.
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