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Some of you like what we’re going. Some of you hate it. C’est la vie]
You know John, I don’t even know how to begin this post. though I had been a member of this board for a long time, I didn’t post much. When I started really posting was at a time where you deleted GK’s post trying to help Brad keep training even though where he lives there wasn’t a place to train krav or a quality gym. I read her post and and its your choice to delete but to say its was inflamitory or that recent posts have been overly critical of KMAA, well you’ll have to explain that to me. I really don’t get it 😕
You know that half belt testing is going to have the illisuion of a Mcdojo whether you are one or not. I’m not saying this to piss you off just fact. Little kids running around with white stripesin the middle of their colored TKD belts. Parents having to come up with an extra $40 every 2 months. Mcdojos invented it.Whether your mid term testing is the most brilliant idea or not. Its going to be looked at hard because of what it represents in other arts. Remember, preception is reality. I’m not sure your explaination of the need for it answered the questions and not answering the question about fees didn’t help your cause. All this said, though posters seemed to be mixed on the idea it wasn’t like the flame throwers came out 😆 or anybody was promoting other orginizations.
Criticism is part of life. It always amazes me in a gathering of martial artists that people get upset when a fight breaks out 🙄 I can understand deleting a post that is promotional for another group, but not GK’s. Because Gk is very pro KMAA and krav. I had decided never to join KMAA after a series of events, though I love the system and think the instructors are excellent. GK was always the first one tojump up a show me what was to be gained and how good the training is. She kept kmaa in the game and I changed my mind and was about to join as income tax refund arrived. Everytime something happens to make me leary again, like your post,
I think The preception that krav is becoming cardio krav is a big deal. You’ll notice I said the preception not the fact. KIck the preception in the ass. Fight the critics/detractors with truth. You know your stuff is solid. I’ve seen the training, Its good.John, people I know tell me you are an excellent instructor. I had always really looked forward to meeting you and training with you. Criticism on this board as I’ve said before is a great tool. we learn more from our critics then we do from the sheeple who are telling how wonderful we are, once we understand the motives. I think you absolutely have missed the motives of some of the posters( GK in particular, in spite of history.) Yes I think you were wrong to delete
General Patton said, \” Never Fight a battle where you have nothing to gain\”
I have no dog in this fight, so why waste my morning on this. I think krav is an excellent system and want you to do well, though I think I’m gonna trust my instincts, for nowBest Wishes
Mike SchoenfeldHere’s a list of names, certified in Israel as instructors.
Haim Gidon
Dror Saporta
Boaz Aviram
Rick Blitstein
Alan Feldman
David Kahn
Eitan Savir
Eyal Yanilov
Dana Kaplan
Jonathan LevyAre you trying to protect the integrity of your system by attempting to deny them the right to teach in the US?
Your level one instructor course lasts (1) week. Some of these guys who learned under Imi, have been instructors for over 20 years.
Like any good businessman, you are trying to protect what you have built.
Those instructors not teaching diminishes the system.
Like I said earlier, if KMAA is the better system, so be it.
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[quote=\”Plantman\”]Here’s a list of names, certified in Israel as instructors.
Haim Gidon
Dror Saporta
Boaz Aviram
Rick Blitstein
Alan Feldman
David Kahn
Eitan Savir
Eyal Yanilov
Dana Kaplan
Jonathan LevyAre you trying to protect the integrity of your system by attempting to deny them the right to teach in the US?
Your level one instructor course lasts (1) week. Some of these guys who learned under Imi, have been instructors for over 20 years.
Like any good businessman, you are trying to protect what you have built.
Those instructors not teaching diminishes the system.
Like I said earlier, if KMAA is the better system, so be it.[/quot
Why can’t they teach in the us? Forgive my ignorance. I thought there was an IKMF school in San Diego and Seattle.
Yeah, I want to echo everything *positive* that’s been said here. I never thought my question would generate that kind of response, but it gave me a lot of ideas on the first Krav defense I ever learned. Thanks all, for all your contributions, John Whitman and others, for bringing Krav to all of us. I can’t wait to get back within range of a school where I can train all the time.
Plantman,
Not only did we not try to stop any of those people from teaching (one or two I’ve never heard of). In fact, we tried to work out cooperative agreements with them, especially with Eyal while, in our opinion, giving up things promised us by them. We resorted to other methods only after they refused, and refused, and we were obligated to protect ourselves.
I doubt you’ll believe that, of course.
Mike, thanks for your comments.
Also, I’ve given a lot of thought to the objections here about the midterm testing.
I genuinely think it’s a good idea…just the other day we had an instructor meeting where we talked about students not performing well on tests, and I think the midterm evaluations are a means of solving this.
However, we can’t insist that schools do it and also demand that they not charge money. First of all, we don’t exercise that kind of control over their business, nor do we want to. Second, it doesn’t seem fair to ask them to devote extra time on their own weekends/evenings/etc. without earning from it. They are businessmen as well as teachers.
Those two issues seem incompatible…so I WILL bring our people’s attention to the concerns raised here on the board.
Also, I’m going back under the radar. I think many people (including me) were happier. Enjoy the forum!
unstpbabl1- \”You know that half belt testing is going to have the illisuion of a Mcdojo whether you are one or not. I’m not saying this to piss you off just fact. Little kids running around with white stripes in the middle of their colored TKD belts.\”
I respect your opinions and I don’t read this forum much but I want to make a statement. First of all, please take care in stating your opinion and representing it as ‘fact’. Most of our students don’t even know what Mcdojo means let alone the idea of a white stripe in a belt. So if you feel there will be an ‘illusion’ of being watered down then that, respectfully, is your illusion and perhaps some others, but not many in this demographic. Look, I don’t think our school will ever do half testingís but that’s beside the point. If we did it would be in response to our students needs not our need for income, such as a need for more readily available and obtainable goals as they progress, instead of training in Level 4 for 1.5 years until they can test again…and they will not wear belts, stripe or not.
Plantman- I donít even know what to say to you. What is your motivation? And donít give me that ëintegrity of the systemí crap. You were right; the cream DOES always rise to the topÖThat is why KMAA is such a strong and successful organization with locations worldwide! In any large organization there will be challenges, but the market will take care of that over time will it not? It already has in many instances. You arenít training in a substandard location are you? If you are, then move. Others will follow, the location will cease. End of problem.
So really Iíd like to know, what is your motivation? It sounds ego driven to me. Are you worried that you wonít get recognition? Are you afraid that someone not as good or as talented as you might have a piece of paper that says he or she is a higher rank or grade than you? As good as many of those instructors on your list might be, so is Darren, John, Michael, et-al. You cannot ëdiminishí a system by NOT having other instructors in, only by introducing BAD instruction. I cannot make water taste worse by NOT pouring other types of water into itÖ.(my only philosophical statement this year, I assure you)
Yes, the level 1 instruction certification is 7 days (8 to 10 hours a day I might add), and that only allows someone to teach YELLOW belt material. Then there is another 7 days for Orange, another 7 days for Green, etc. Iíve been teaching Krav Maga for over 9 years now, my level 1 certification lasted 9 days, does that make me less of an instructor?If your motives are pure, as I know Darrenís and Johnís are, then why donít you get certified with KMAA and open 100 schools across the US that teaches ONLY non-diminished, un-watered down, true-to-life, as-Imi-intended Krav Maga? You can then BE the cream that rises to the top.
Respectfully yours,
I’m glad you asked about my motivation(s).
I have no financial interest nor do I plan on having one anytime soon. I could care less about a certificate or belt.
I am a student and fan of Krav Maga and am perfectly happy with the instruction I receive.
You said \”You cannot ëdiminishí a system by NOT having other instructors in, only by introducing BAD instruction\”.
I disagree and here is why.
You have the former head instructor of the IDF, who is not teaching in your organization. How is your system better for it?
Are any of the instructors in your organization as qualified to teach as that person?
Some if not all of the names of the people on the aforementioned list were sent letters to cease and desist using the name Krav Maga as it was owned by KMAA.
We know this to not be the case as the recent ruling of the name being generic in a recent lawsuit.
Most of those people were taught and granted permission to teach by Imi. They are not teaching in your organization. How is it better for it?
I get pissed off when my instructor, who has been teaching in this country for almost 25 years basically is told that he cannot use the name Krav Maga, after having earned the right and privilige thru Imi, it bothers me.
Either teach under our corporate umbrella or you cannot use the name.
By saying that, you are in effect dictating to that person how to make a living.
I can go on, but that is my basic motivation. The big guy trying to control the little guy.
You are correct, the market will take care of itself.
The IKMA or IKMF may never be as big as KMAA, but bigger is not always better.
.02
JamesH,
WOW! I enjoyed reading your post, it pumped me up on my thoughts of Krav Maga. I got re-generated and at the same time re-angered because I want to resume and continue training In Krav but can’t because of the lack of quality training in Central Florida where I live. Many times I wish I could start teaching it myself. But, at 65 years old, I doubt that I could pass the instructor certification course. It is my understanding that roughly 30% of the students will fail the course. And since I’m not longer affilliated with a Martial Arts School and have no sponsor, I would have to foot the bill myself. That would be too much of an expense and gamble for me. But I know this, I have been dedicated to giving 100% in everything I have done in my careers as an adult. And if I were a Krav instructor, I would give no less to insure that quality instruction was being provided. But, for me that is only a dream.I also posted earlier regarding the mid-term testing and may have made some negative comments about it ( to me they were inquiries). But, on the positive side, I must say that mid-term testing does have it’s good points. Mid-term tests were started in the association I was studying Taekwondo with. At the Black Belt level, there were 5 or 6 (I can’t remember exactly now) \”mid-term\” or intermediate tests. However the costs of the tests were divided equally so that the total cost was equalivilant to the cost of one test if it had been administered. And so was the criteria, both old and new, the candidate was expected to know and demonstrate broken down with only certain parts tested on at each test. Make since? I think I just lost myself.
Anyway, I tried to explain how it worked but it made this post lmore onger and boring than it already is – so I deleted it. My main point is that there is an advantage to mid-term testing as long as the school doesn’t use it as a golden opportunity to take more money out of the students pockets.
I’m not sure what I just said – I sure hope I didn’t anger anyone. 😮
Mr. Whitman,
Don’t go back in the shadows as you put it. I for one enjoy your inputs and explanations on this forum. And I’m sure everyone else does too.I do not generally involve myself in this debate or in anonymous internet bickering, so this will be my only post on the subject with you, Plantman.
Your quotes:
îYou have the former head instructor of the IDF, who is not teaching in your organization. How is your system better for it?îÖÖ
FOR starters, your first post stated ìThose instructors not teaching diminishes the system.î You didnít argue that the system would be better off with them teaching, you stated that the system was worse because they are notÖbig difference.
Also, I donít know the individual you are referring to, but being a head instructor for the IDF, or ANY government organization does not automatically make you a great instructor or practitioner let alone qualify you as one of the best. That distinction is clearly subjective and personally derived.ìAre any of the instructors in your organization as qualified to teach as that person?îÖÖ
Repeat of my second paragraph above. Especially the ìSUBJECTIVEî portion.îMost of those people were taught and granted permission to teach by Imi. They are not teaching in your organization. How is it better for it?î……
This is a repeat of two other points you made above, try to stay focused.I can certainly appreciate your passion for Krav Maga and your dedication to your instructor, but the more you write the worse you look to be honest. Did any of the cease and desist letters actually deter anyone from teaching Krav Maga? Not using the name, perhaps, but Iím sure it was still taught. The name was made popular in the US by KMAA and the hard work of those involved, who by the way IS the big man on the block BECUASE the cream rose to the top. There was no huge corporate money coming in to grow the evil empire, just top notch instruction at a reasonable price and packaged in a way that appeals to most mature adults.
Thats all i have to say, train hard and enjoy yourself.
I have also enjoyed my repose from the forum, but when I saw this thread I felt the need to post. I get tired of John having to re-hash this and state what is so obvious. I am glad to hear others picking up the slack and allowing him to stand back. So, in that spirit I will lend a hand…
Where were all of these instructors you talk about Plantman? Where were they in the 80’s and 90’s when KMAA was working hard to get us Krav Maga? I did not hear about your list of people then. Sure, maybe some had schools, but HOW were they BUILDING Krav Maga and getting it to those that needed it to saves lives?
Motivation you ask? Hmmm… I think the motivation lies is the pockets of those instructors you spoke of. Nobody was here working hard in America like KMAA. Nobody wanted to tout their brand of Krav Maga or their pedigree. Nope, not until they saw the success that Darren, John, Michael, Marni and the others created. BTW, Darren started the momentum with IMI, taught WITH him here in the US. He wanted Darren to lead the way for Krav Maga. Not with your list of instructors, but with Darren… To me, that speaks volumes.
That came through hard work. They established Krav Maga in the US and in my opinion, abroad as well. So I agree with you, the motivation is about money, it just not KMAA’s motivation.
That you will find on your list. The IDF, the IDF, the IDF… get over it. I will indulge your comment however. Yes we do have instructors that served with the IDF also, yes decorated service men who are some of the best instructors in the world. Just attend a seminar with Sam or Amir.
However, some of the best seminars I have ever attended were by everyday people, like John and Darren, Michael and Jon Pascal. They teach on a level everyone can understand. Not just the military person or police officer but the soccer mom and everyday Joe.
I happily pay my licensee fees to KMWW to continue the legal battle. To ensure that it does not end up like Tae Kwon Do has. Another beautiful, strong, and proud martial art that because it was not regulated, has turned into what we see today…
I have no control over that, but as a Krav Maga instructor, they have given us some control over what it is to become. And none of us, students and instructors alike will allow it to be ruined by those seeking to simply fill their pockets…
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quote \”JamesH\:unstpbabl1- \”You know that half belt testing is going to have the illisuion of a Mcdojo whether you are one or not. I’m not saying this to piss you off just fact. Little kids running around with white stripes in the middle of their colored TKD belts.\”I respect your opinions and I don’t read this forum much but I want to make a statement. First of all, please take care in stating your opinion and representing it as ‘fact’. Most of our students don’t even know what Mcdojo means let alone the idea of a white stripe in a belt. So if you feel there will be an ‘illusion’ of being watered down then that, respectfully, is your illusion and perhaps some others, but not many in this demographic. Look, I don’t think our school will ever do half testingís but that’s beside the point. If we did it would be in response to our students needs not our need for income, such as a need for more readily available and obtainable goals as they progress, instead of training in Level 4 for 1.5 years until they can test again…and they will not wear belts, stripe or not.
Respectfully yours,Hi James, I apologize but I’m assuming your the School owner in Co. KravJeff trains there. Great guy. I think John understood exactly what I was saying, whether he agreed with me or not. We live in L.A. but I don’t think we are really anymore knowledgable to the term or concept of McDojoism then anywhere else. Heck John 😆 Its got it’s owm listing on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDojo I know there are a lot of great reality based trainers in your neck of the woods. Uncle Bill is out there even and Dan Inosanto said he’s a top of the mountain type expirience.I understand Colorado is a hotbed of good training. So are your saying to me that in your demigraphics the students chosing your school are less informed than anywhere else? 😉 🙂 One only has to look at the net to see how many questions persective students ask before and after picking a M/A. I think you need to give your students and perspective students more credit. Also yourself, as an instructor , that once they train with you, that they feel they are getting great instruction. Whether you think I’m talking outta my butt, dellusional or stating opinion for fact, I only stated as fact, the illusion a 15 belt system creates. Did you know, Ninpo now has 15 degree black belts, with half belts all the way up the scale. I also only summed up the gist of the threads on the subject, and was cofused by why John was so upset. As he knows this game 🙂James, I’m sorry if my post bugged you in anyway. I hope you get the spirit of my posts. There not attacks. I only try to post things to help in some way.
mike
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