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(1) I was informed that the judge in your lawsuit ruled the name krav maga to be generic. As of right now, whomever practices krav maga does not need permission from anyone to use the name. It seems like the group of instructors opposing your organization’s attempted trademark (of a generic name!) won already.
(2) I understand your organization is suing Eyal Yanilov and Dror Saporta, some world-renowned Israeli instructors, for quality control. Eyal Yanilov is Darren’s teacher and the one who gave Darren his latest belt ranking. Why are you concerned with the quality control coming from those instructors?
(3) The source of krav maga is Israel. You suggest that the real krav maga instructors — Israelis — are money grubbers. Your organization is the only group who makes millions of dollars using this Israeli cultural asset. So who are the real money grubbers?
1) We’ll see who has the last word.
2) Over the years, we’ve offered to PROMOTE Eyal’s seminars here for him;since when is Dror Saporta \”world reknowned? But the main answer to your number 2 is this: while we take criticism for quality control, at least we try; in fact we put most of our resources toward quaity control; these other \”organizations\” do not. Just look at Europe.
3) Who says they are \”real\” Krav Maga instructors? Are only Israelis \”real\”? Darren was Imi’s chosen rep in the U.S. and he’s not Israel. He gave Darren a Founder’s Diploma even though he’s not Israeli. I’m not Israeli…am I not real? I’ve trained in Israel…does that make me seem more legitimate? If it does, you are more misguided than I thought. Do you know how many Israelis have claimed to be KM instructors because they trained for a few weeks in the Army (not as instructors, but as end users)? Some Israeli instructors are great, some are terrible. Who is going to protect the reputation of KM from the fakes. You? And don’t say \”the marketplace\” because the market place did not protect karate, jkd, bjj, taekwondo, or any other group.
And the second part of my response to #3: I am absolutely in business to make money. I am in THIS business because I love it and believe in making people safer and stronger. But as someone pointed out earlier, we were here building the name, pouring effort and money into its reputation, patiently explaining it to people who asked what \”Krav Magraw\” was, when no one else was. And, by the way, I don’t believe I called them money grubbers. They are certainly here for money, but my complaint is that they have so easily disregarded their promises.
Hey lotar,
After giving it some thought, I decided I had to delete your post. (For those of you who didn’t see it before it was deleted, it was supportive of our side of the argument.)
I’m sorry. I admit I was tempted to leave it up…but if I delete inflammatory comments about us, I feel I have to delete inflammatory comments about the other side as well. We need to stick to rational, reasonable arguments here.
Thank you, though!
Re:
quote \”johnwhitman\:Hey lotar,After giving it some thought, I decided I had to delete your post. (For those of you who didn’t see it before it was deleted, it was supportive of our side of the argument.)
I’m sorry. I admit I was tempted to leave it up…but if I delete inflammatory comments about us, I feel I have to delete inflammatory comments about the other side as well. We need to stick to rational, reasonable arguments here.
Thank you, though!
Not that it matters, but I’ll vouch thjat the deleted post was very pro KMAA. I also think deleting it takes alot of class John. I figure if I’m gonna call you on a deletion I should give you credit when due. I think most would’ve let that post stand, but your reasons for deletion show integrity.
mikeWell, I haven’t posted in the general forum in a very long time, and I won’t say much other than, it’s easy to stand on the outside and criticize.
No one on the outside will ever really understand how much devotion those inside KMAA have to preserving and growing Krav Maga. KMAA, despite many opportunities, never publicly says anything derogatory about any of these other instructors or organizations, though the same cannot be said about many of them. KMAA has made many attempts to work with these instructors, in order to better the organization and the system. KMAA has made Krav Maga what it is in the US. I challenge anyone to prove differently.
In the end, Plantman will say and believe whatever he wants. If he chooses to go through this with blinders on, that’s his choice. I’m glad he’s happy with his training, and I wish him and his instructor all of the best.
Brad, if you are truly interested in becoming an instructor, send me an e-mail. I can’t promise I can help. As you said, the course is quite tough and many do fail. However, your ability to transfer knowledge and understand KM is most important. If I can help you, I will. [email protected]
While this thread/topic get redundant at times, I have to give you guys credit in that you have allowed me to voice an opinion regarding this issue that is completely different than yours.
For that I thank you.
I’m sure there are some bad Israeli instructors, as there are bad European and American instructors.
As for the Israeli trained instructors I mentioned, they were either granted permission to teach by Imi or Haim Gidon, I dount that you would have any quality control issues with them.
I’m sure I posted that already but it’s too early.
As for the issue about making money, some of those guys were teaching before KMAA opened up. Infact, some of them have been teaching longer than KMAA has existed.
What would you have them do?
Have a great day.
What would I have them do?
Only two things:
1) Keep their promises.
2) If they want to come here, do it in a way that is respective of our 20+ years of effort, which has not only made the name known here but has given it interntional recognition; and that doesn’t harm our organization, structure, or the protections that we have created.
Apparently, that was too much ask.
As it is probably apparent, I do not post here much. And for reasons that are my own.
After reading this particular post and the volley’s that have been sent to and fro, I have a few tidbits to ponder.1) Imi GAVE noone anything, everything has a price!
2) while I agree that KMAA has fought for 20 odd years to promote and entrench their name in the US, to trademark a generic name in any language is pretty hard to do. Trademarking yourselves as KMAA I get, trademarking to prevent others from using a set of words as generic as \”aspirin\” I don’t get. Spend your money and your time on getting YOUR system to a higher plain. Screw the others, they will undoubtedly mess it up by themselves.
3) I’m glad JW spoke the truth of heart when he posted that KMAA is in business and in it for growth not static results. But more important for me is the fact that from a Macro perspective, the idiology of KM (of any kind) is to send our students out there with the tools of survival. Of this we are all in agreement I’m sure.
So to you all I say….pull down your pants and slide on the ice. Translated: let the others do as they will, just mind the things you can control. There will always be detractors to the cause, this we can not control.
Train Hard, Stay Safe!
I realize that I am late to this post. This is actually my first post in over four years (life kinda hit a rough patch – a soap opera thing – but I am back now). I wanted to add my two cents to this discussion.
The fact that people are allowed to air thier gripes about (and take negative views of) Krav in this forum is a credit to John and to Krav. I can’t think of many other organizations that would allow this. When I first met John, Darren, Michael and the whole group I was very, very impressed that these guys didn’t have egos. They didn’t go around letting everyone know how great they were and putting down other systems. This was new to me.
As far as these other guys coming to the U.S. and teaching Krav. Darren has been teaching Krav in the U.S. for over twenty-five years now. Imi wanted Darren to grow Krav here. Darren, Michael and John are good businessmen who have figured out how to make a good living doing what they love. This is not a negative thing. We should all be so lucky in life. I know for a fact that if there were no money in Krav these guys would still be teaching and spreading it. As a matter of fact, Darren did just that for years. If these other guys really loved Krav and wanted to make people safe they would find a place in the world that doesn’t have Krav and grow it there, just as Darren did here. Instead they want to come where the work has already been done by others. There is only one reason for this – money. From what I know of Imi he would be heart broken over this.
Thanks for letting me yap!!
Let me first start off by saying I was doing Expert series V at the KMNTC when this thread was first going on and I just now have been able to go through it. I’ve spent the last 6 and a half years promoting and trying to grow KM in my little area of south Louisiana because of the hard work and dedication to KM that Darren,John,Michael,Marni,etc. have done , and also for my love for the system. All I ever heard of Eyal over the years from any of these people is great things. All I ever heard from Eyal is through an E-mail how wrong we were doing things in the U.S. and that we should switch to his organization and pay him money.To me integrety is everything I’m a former Marine and combat veteran. When someone makes statements as Eyal did in his E-mail,it makes me question his intents seriously.Bottom line its about the money he could be making off the Krav Maga name that KMNTC has promoted and spread in the U.S. Since when was Krav Maga a \”generic\” name in the U.S.? Who the hec ever heard of KM in the U.S. before KMAA? Not many. I’ve been in the martial arts 25yrs and never heard of it until a NAPMA conference almost 7yrs ago. I will do anything it takes to help protect the name and way of teaching Darren has set forth.Am I biased? Hell Yeah! I’ve spent thousands of $ to be able to teach what I’m teaching, I’m not well off , it’s been hard,but for what I’m able to teach to people for them to be safe it’s been worth every dime. Anyway that’s my vent ,I think that the Krav Maga name should be protected and that some reconciliation could probably still be made if other groups would honor their promises. Mark KM Hammond La.,
Re:
quote JL:As it is probably apparent, I do not post here much. And for reasons that are my own.
After reading this particular post and the volley’s that have been sent to and fro, I have a few tidbits to ponder.1) Imi GAVE noone anything, everything has a price!
2) while I agree that KMAA has fought for 20 odd years to promote and entrench their name in the US, to trademark a generic name in any language is pretty hard to do. Trademarking yourselves as KMAA I get, trademarking to prevent others from using a set of words as generic as \”aspirin\” I don’t get. Spend your money and your time on getting YOUR system to a higher plain. Screw the others, they will undoubtedly mess it up by themselves.
3) I’m glad JW spoke the truth of heart when he posted that KMAA is in business and in it for growth not static results. But more important for me is the fact that from a Macro perspective, the idiology of KM (of any kind) is to send our students out there with the tools of survival. Of this we are all in agreement I’m sure.
So to you all I say….pull down your pants and slide on the ice. Translated: let the others do as they will, just mind the things you can control. There will always be detractors to the cause, this we can not control.
Train Hard, Stay Safe!
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Krav Maga – Use of the Human Body as a Weapon
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Posts: 1Krav Maga – Use of the Human Body as a Weapon
December 29, 2009
New York
Good Mountain Tactical Training Center, LLCPRESS RELEASE
Top Israeli Hand-to-Hand Combat Expert Boaz Aviram Publishes Krav-Maga Bible
Krav Maga ñ Use of the Human Body as a Weapon;
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The techniques are demonstrated, explained, and followed by a group of various men and women participation, adding to the dynamics of the learning process of the viewer.
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