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Re: A Little Disappointed…
There’s value in both. You will get more focused striking and grappling in MMA/BJJ. Take those skills and apply them to the real-life drilling you find in KM.
A fight can change quickly with something as simple as a baseball bat.
Re: A Little Disappointed…
I had something long written but lost it due to a glitch – don’t feel like writing it all over again.
A couple of pesos I will type again though:
Without training you/training with you it’s impossible to say where the issues lie. Regarding BJJ and opponent mounted on you, many beginners (and even some intermediate/advanced practitions too) have problems with that position because of a few reasons, including:
1. they don’t know any techniques for that situation
2. they only know 1 technique (and if the opponent also knows that technique, well…)
3. they are not executing that technique properly/ideally/well (and of course, the bigger/stronger/more skilled an opponent is, the more spot on your technique has to be)
4. they are choosing the wrong time to apply that technique (or are trying to force) or they missed the window of opportunity for that technique
5. they are telegraphing the technique and/or not setting it up and/or doing too slowlyI use BJJ/mount as an example because you brought it up to begin with BUT those things also apply to MANY other techniques (not just escaping from being mounted) and in MANY other situations (not just grappling range/BJJ).
There are no magic/100% techniques. There are no techniques that work for everyone against anyone (and I wince when I hear people claim that). Size & Strength are always factors – especially if he/she also has Skill.
Here is Ronda Rousey having an Extremely difficult time training with Gegard Mousasi (and he’s taking it pretty easy on her):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9xjs2fWJEs
FWIW, I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t look all that much different if I were in there instead of her…
Also btw, here is an incomplete video of Matt Thornton talking about “liveness/aliveness” in Training:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjmLWj5WCU
Without going too much into my own thoughts on training and methodologies – yes, you want things to be intense and dynamic and real BUT IMO, there’s no point in making it IMpossible for students all the time. The trick for instructors and training partners is to adjust your levels for each person you’re training/training with – challenging them without destroying them.
Re: A Little Disappointed…
quote catapult:Kravjitsu, you don’t mention which school you train at or which organization, if any, they may be affiliated with. Most legit schools have a variety of classes, beginner, intermediate, advanced, etc. After 10 months, most enthusiastic students, which it sounds like you are one, would have moved on to a more advanced class where, I can assure you, compliant partners and people who can barely hit pads are NOT a problem. You’ll take plenty of lumps in the more advanced classes if you’re not on your game.My school is with KM Alliance. I actually saw an event for a John Whitman sparring seminar… so I don’t think how my school does things is necessarily how Alliance sees it. I am in level 3. Men tend to go harder with each other at times. Women not so much. Either way still no real time sparring.
quote Don:There are no magic/100% techniques. There are no techniques that work for everyone against anyone (and I wince when I hear people claim that). Size & Strength are always factors – especially if he/she also has Skill.Oh yes… I agree this is part of what I am trying to say. I think a lot of people, particularly women do get this glaze over their eyes and think Krav is like the end all be all and after even only a few months of doing it have some illusion that they are now some sort of fight goddess/god. I would say to other women in particular…
“No, you are not some fight goddess just because you train Krav a couple days a week for a few months. Being able to fight and knowing how to be strategic takes time, drilliing, and live resistance. If you aren’t getting all of those… at most you are getting some extra confidence and a few tools that may or may not work for you depending on your ‘luck’. Yes, even ‘dirty techniques’ require timing and may not always work. If I have you in a good choke hold, you can bite me all you want and I will hold that sucka until you pass out and then worry about the pain.”
quote Don:Without going too much into my own thoughts on training and methodologies – yes, you want things to be intense and dynamic and real BUT IMO, there’s no point in making it IMpossible for students all the time. The trick for instructors and training partners is to adjust your levels for each person you’re training/training with – challenging them without destroying them.I agree here as well. The thing is I don’t get that from my Krav school and I suspect others may be in the same boat at their schools. At the end of the day, people have a business to run. If the customer (student) feels empowered that they learned some cool technique they will keep coming back. If they realize that the technique may not really work in a live situation, they may get frustrated and not come back…. Even if you don’t smash them right away… America is instant society… If it’s work people may fall off the boat instead of keeping on working until their sails hit the wind at the right angle.
I have an example of not getting smashed, but it’s still so hard that it can be discouraging. I have recently added Judo to my repertoire. Last night, at one point we were drilling throws. I don’t know that many yet, so one of the older black belts took me off to the side and help me with a throw. He was SO nice and patient with me, but it was still so rough for me. I am a small female… and he was over 200 lbs! Even he was giving no resistance at all and I’m all OMG… this is crazy! Yes, eventually I was able to throw him but I can’t imagine if I was actually really going up against a guy his size. It’s not magic. It takes time. Training takes hard work and dedication not learning a few “deadly moves”.
quote MadDogMean:There’s value in both. You will get more focused striking and grappling in MMA/BJJ. Take those skills and apply them to the real-life drilling you find in KM.A fight can change quickly with something as simple as a baseball bat.
At the end of the day… This ^.
People say Krav is complete system… and maybe it is more complete depending on how it is taught at certain places. If I had to make a wager though, I would say that many schools are set up in a way, where you really would need to supplement with MMA/MT/BJJ/etc to truly become a decent fighter.
The best way is to take the mindset you get from Krav, along with some escapes, and weapons defenses and combine that with a more specialized modern art like the ones I just mentioned above. I can’t see Krav ***alone*** cutting it but being more of a framework to be fleshed out with other fighting skills/training.
Re: A Little Disappointed…
Are you in a general BJJ class. That is very tough atmosphere. Being with blue and purple belts . Also they tend to toss out so many complex stuff it is hard to follow at all. I tried a general class about 12 yrs ago and quit after 3 months or so. IT was so complex . Not to mention the pounding I took by A-hole Blue and purple belts.
I am going to join a core class that focuses on the basic moves this summer. I think 80 percent of BJJ is utterly useless in a real situation. The white belt curriculm will cover enough stuff that you could use in real life without getting so complex you think you are doing calculus.
Re: A Little Disappointed…
The elbow escape is the best move to get somebody off you from mount. The bridge and roll works best against people with no experience.
In general Krav is pretty weak on at ground stuff but they have some sweet ground kicks.
Re: A Little Disappointed…
quote lions2011:Are you in a general BJJ class. That is very tough atmosphere. Being with blue and purple belts . Also they tend to toss out so many complex stuff it is hard to follow at all. I tried a general class about 12 yrs ago and quit after 3 months or so. IT was so complex . Not to mention the pounding I took by A-hole Blue and purple belts.I am going to join a core class that focuses on the basic moves this summer. I think 80 percent of BJJ is utterly useless in a real situation. The white belt curriculm will cover enough stuff that you could use in real life without getting so complex you think you are doing calculus.
Yes, BJJ is very confusing at first. I was pretty much lost too. My gym does have a 101 class where they show basic movements and no sparring. I also went to the all levels class where there was sparring. At about five months, things are beginning to click for me. I am realizing that BJJ has several common movements or patterns (hip movements, body rotations, grips, etc) that now I find myself naturally doing them (partly muscle memory) and when people do new techniques I can see the patterns as building blocks so it doesn’t look as complex to me. Before, when someone would show me a BJJ move my mind would be spinning even on techniques I now consider basic. Now that I can see the base patterns/movements I just focus on the few pieces of the new technique that are actually new. I am not saying that certain things are not still confusing or complex… but that now I am building my toolbox of connections and moves that I can play with so not AS daunting.
I agree that a huge portion of particular sport BJJ is not very useful for self-defense. I think BJJ does offer a piece of the self-defense puzzle, Krav another, MT another, MMA another, etc. I just don’t think any one art or system is the end all be all. There’s no just learn Krav or MT or MMA and you are all good to go!
Re: A Little Disappointed…
Yes parts of BJJ are tremendously good for self-defense. I think a good white belt would have master enough of the ground for basic self defense.
I have been doing MT for the last few yrs. And I have been doing Krav for the last 4 yrs or so. So when you attend the open sparring class has anybody been injured.
I have very little experience with BJJ butI remember trying the open class and seeing one guy get his arm poped.Re: A Little Disappointed…
Some of the BJJ gyms do alot of takedowns. However, the things like leg locks and neck cranks I really have no interest in learning due to high degree on injury.
I have friends who do MMA. And some say that many of the gyms offer poor striking. Classes are more Wrestling and boxing mix. IF you want real MT you will not find it at most MMA gyms.
Re: A Little Disappointed…
You just described almost all of the Krav Maga classes I teach to my students.
“Yes, BJJ is very confusing at first. I was pretty much lost too. My gym does have a 101 class where they show basic movements and no sparring. I also went to the all levels class where there was sparring. At about five months, things are beginning to click for me. I am realizing that BJJ has several common movements or patterns (hip movements, body rotations, grips, etc) that now I find myself naturally doing them (partly muscle memory) and when people do new techniques I can see the patterns as building blocks so it doesn’t look as complex to me. Before, when someone would show me a BJJ move my mind would be spinning even on techniques I now consider basic. Now that I can see the base patterns/movements I just focus on the few pieces of the new technique that are actually new. I am not saying that certain things are not still confusing or complex… but that now I am building my toolbox of connections and moves that I can play with so not AS daunting.”
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