An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

[guitarded-1]

This may be best addressed by the instructors, though all are welcome.

Let me preface all of this by saying that I don’t train in Krav, largely due to geographical factors, but I plan to at some point. I constantly train in western boxing with some Muay Thai thrown in. In a ring or controlled sparing situation, I believe myself to be competent enough to put up a good fight and not feel “in over my head”. I made up my mind quite some time ago to never be a victim, and to not be scared to strike first in a self-defense scenario…things that are easy to say when the **** hasn’t hit the fan.

Yesterday my wife and I were driving through our quiet residential street (complete with speed bumps), when we get passed by a thug type going at least 60 miles an hour. This was clearly not anyone living in our neighborhood. We have kids in our neighborhood, and I naturally laid on my horn to express disaproval. About the time I laid on the horn, we took a right on to a more major street (part of our planned route). As we took that right, I see that the guy is stopped and then thrown it in reverse. Here we go. I hand the phone to my wife (who is freaking out), and tell her to call 911.

At this point, the guy tears up beside us and is in a complete rage…like he was just looking for this exact situation. This guy was a maniac. The thought of a gun coming into play was very real. Obviously, I had a total adreneline dump and was positively gripped by fear. Though I am not a fearful type in everyday life, in one nanosecond, this guy had dominated the situation and I felt completely helpless. Fortunately, he ended up turning away.

Had the same type of situation taken place and he had silently followed us, then blocked in a parking space and confronted me toe to toe, that adreneline dump (and my reaction) may have cost me dearly. I replay the situation in my head and picture the guy in a ring (as an oponent), I think that I could have done some damage if I had to. But when I think of the toe to toe scenario, though I know I would have still fought back, mentally I would have been defeated before the first strike. This guy had it 110% in his head that he would never be beaten by a guy like me…I’ll leave it at that.

So let’s address the real factor here…adreneline. I’ll go ahead and admit that, for whatever reason, this is a major psychological barrier for me…maybe even much more so than the average person. Perhaps it roots back to me getting my ass handed to me when I was younger. I think it incediously routed itself in my brain, and now I feel crippled when a situation heats up.

I feel like I could train for years in Krav, spar for thousands of hours, win 50 competition fights by knockout, and I would STILL have the same reaction in that situation…so it really doesn’t boil down to the tools. It boils down to the mind.

How do I overcome this deep seated fear in a self-defense situation? I’m ready to face it.

[jenn]

Re: An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

I’m sure I’m missing something or misinterpreting what you’re asking but here’s my limited response.

In a car to car altercation where the BG pulls a gun I can’t think of any Krav training that would help.

If the BG followed you to a parking lot and pulled a gun then Krav weapon defense training comes into play. BUT I would hope you would have been aware of your surroundings and noticed the car and not pulled into a parking spot but instead have detoured to a police station or an ER or a fire station. Waaaaay back in college during a self defense “seminar” that’s what the instructor said to do if I noticed a car following me – and to stay on well traveled streets.

[guitarded-1]

Re: An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

quote Denver Jenn:

I’m sure I’m missing something or misinterpreting what you’re asking but here’s my limited response.

In a car to car altercation where the BG pulls a gun I can’t think of any Krav training that would help.

If the BG followed you to a parking lot and pulled a gun then Krav weapon defense training comes into play. BUT I would hope you would have been aware of your surroundings and noticed the car and not pulled into a parking spot but instead have detoured to a police station or an ER or a fire station. Waaaaay back in college during a self defense “seminar” that’s what the instructor said to do if I noticed a car following me – and to stay on well traveled streets.

I appreciate your response. Let’s not bring the gun part into play…almost irrelevant. I understand all of the preventative measures, but I’m asking a very specific question at the end of my post…how to work on actually controlling an adrenaline dump. I’m talking about not being gripped by fear when preventative measures have failed and you are faced with an attacker who is dead set on kicking your ass. Avoiding the situation is a given. What I’m interested in addressing is a psychological response.

[jburtonpdx]

Re: An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

quote guitarded_1:

I feel like I could train for years in Krav, spar for thousands of hours, win 50 competition fights by knockout, and I would STILL have the same reaction in that situation…so it really doesn’t boil down to the tools. It boils down to the mind.

How do I overcome this deep seated fear in a self-defense situation? I’m ready to face it.

I understand and know the fear you are talking about. You overcome it by starting your training in Krav Maga now. The testing we go through will show you that you can overcome this, the training that we do specifically addresses this sort of stress.

In some of the testing and training I have gone through I have fought with multiple attackers — note this was not sparring, I have been kicked in the groin, knocked out, have incurred actual physical damage (this was in higher level classes and testing). This is the only possible way to “train” for this stuff.

We will do drills where you do not know who the attacker is and you will be facing multiple other students. This also will help begin the inoculation against stress that you need.

The only other thing to inoculate yourself against this sort of thing that I am aware of would be to go out and pick fights, I do not recommend that.

Asking these questions is a critical piece of your training. Doing something with the answers is the next step.

[don]

Re: An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

quote guitarded_1:

Had the same type of situation taken place and he had silently followed us, then blocked in a parking space and confronted me toe to toe, that adreneline dump (and my reaction) may have cost me dearly. I replay the situation in my head and picture the guy in a ring (as an oponent), I think that I could have done some damage if I had to. But when I think of the toe to toe scenario, though I know I would have still fought back, mentally I would have been defeated before the first strike. This guy had it 110% in his head that he would never be beaten by a guy like me…I’ll leave it at that.

How do I overcome this deep seated fear in a self-defense situation? I’m ready to face it.

IMO, the big question is how can you get yourself to believe 110% that YOU would never be beaten by a POS like HIM! Remember you have more to protect than just yourself.

Mindset
Conditioning
Skill/technique
Realistic training

Lt Colonel Dave Grossman

Sun Tzu

“Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely – lay your life before him.” – Bruce Lee

Something else to consider is your “need” to take action. Do you “need” to take action? If so, what kind of action – what are your options for something to do? (e.g. fight vs flight, engaging or being a good witness, etc). If you decide to engage, are you prepared to go the next few steps (what ifs) – does whomever you are with also know what to do? Etc…

[vinman]

Re: An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

maybe subconsciously you knew that this just wasn’t worth fighting over (a traffic incident with a retard )

I bet your reaction would have been different had this POS came onto your wife or attempted to hurt her

[devilnuts]

Re: An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

quote guitarded_1:

But when I think of the toe to toe scenario, though I know I would have still fought back, mentally I would have been defeated before the first strike. This guy had it 110% in his head that he would never be beaten by a guy like me…I’ll leave it at that.

This is your problem, not adrenaline.

To work on the adrenaline, you simply have to acquire a tolerance for it. If you are comfortable sparring in a ring to the point that you no longer have to deal with adrenaline surges, then you need to push your training to a point that adrenaline messes you up again.

As for the aggression issue… I know exactly what you are talking about, and I have been there. Lack of aggression and a feeling of physical inferiority, what have you– used to be a major problem for me. I went out and got myself some training (I joined the Marine Corps thumbsup ) and just put myself in situations over and over again to find out what I’m really capable of.

The thing is, you have to be ready, willing and able to do something terrible to a person if that moment comes. You have to think at great lengths about the unmentionable — what would it look like to have your thumb in an attackers eye socket, all the way up to the knuckle. Your mind won’t be ready for the situation by itself, human beings are not made that way. You have to condition yourself for violence before you are able to inflict violence with any level of proficiency. Physical training only takes you so far.

[blokrocbet]

Re: An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

IMHO you faced a complete unknown and one that was totaly unexpected. Even men in combat have the comfort of knowing what they are about to get into. When we train or test we have an expectation of something. Most fear can be overcome by facing it But the unexpected is the real issue

[phlegmon27]

Re: An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

I’ll play the RN card and tell you that there is nothing, nothing you can do to eliminate the rush and dump of adrenaline in a stressful situation. The best thing is to train, train, train, and really let go when doing stress drills in class. When I first started and we would do drills that began, “OK, now close your eyes.” I would always tense-up and try to anticipate the next attack. I finally realized that I was cheating my self of a “controlled” adrenaline rush-and-dump situation. Since then I have learned to go completely relaxed (Yoga at work) and react to getting blasted. Now I am supremely confident in my ability to perform techniques and combatives while in either of those high or low states.

As far as the attacker having the psychological edge, he only has what you give him. I prefer my opponents (and/or would be attackers) to think they can take me. When you land that opening groin-kick/knee-to-the-face combo, that mindset works against them. Most knuckle-heads don’t want a fight, they want a beating. If you show some level of skill, they will most likely bail-out.

[phlegmon27]

Re: An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

P.S. Hey Burton, say “Hi” to Terri, Justin, and Brad for me.
Tell them it’s Phil from Phase in NY.

[jburtonpdx]

Re: An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

quote phlegmon27:

P.S. Hey Burton, say “Hi” to Terri, Justin, and Brad for me.
Tell them it’s Phil from Phase in NY.

Will do, just had Terri and her husband Bary out at the range shootin yesterday…

[donbruns]

Training for the adrenaline dump

Don Bruns here, former instructor from Krav Maga DC.

You’re right when you say that adrenaline changes everything. Adrenaline turns us into dumb gorillas. Our brute strength increases, mental faculties decrease, time perception goes haywire, and fine motor control goes out the window. If you’re not used to operating in that altered state — with techniques that actually work when you’re in that altered state — all the training in the world amounts to very little.

Krav Maga stress drills are intended to provoke that adrenaline response so that you’re used to operating in that altered state if you ever have to use your training. Stress drills usually involve performing techniques under heightenned duress, such as verbal abuse, increased physical contact, strobe lighting, darkness, dizziness, etc.,

There’s a great example of a stress drill in the movie “Glory”. Fast forward to 1:45 in the video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0it5FboJWkI

You’ll never get rid of the adrenaline reaction. Nor should you want to. People were fending off bears and running from tigers centuries before anybody developed martial arts. It’s the adrenaline dump that protected us as cave men. If you can learn how to operate within the altered state of an adrenaline reaction, you can use it to your advantage today.

[guitarded-1]

Re: An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

Great feedback, guys. I have had a good long weekend to think about the whole thing. Some excellent points here. First off…I agree…the adrenaline dump is a deeply ingrained biological response. No two ways about it. Had the situation been something worth fighting over (like someone getting physical with my wife), I am 100% sure that I would strike without even entertaining the idea of defeat. The fact that this guy got borderline homicidal at the honk of a horn is what totally psyched me out. Ultimately, I think I handled it well…but if ever I encountered the same type of person in a toe to toe confrontation…that’s what I want to train for.

I think it boils down to two things – training and mindset. In terms of training, I need to push myself hard and constantly be exposed to very tough and uncomfortable situations. I need to get used to facing fear dead on. I need to get rocked by some punches and learn what it means to come out on top in the face of tough odds. Basically, I need to be able to say “I can do this” if ever faced with such a serious situation again (providing there’s no way out). As soon as it is feasible for me to train in Krav, I will. Until then, I plan to spar pretty intensely with guys who are way better than myself. I need to eat some punches and give them back.

In terms of mindset, I skimmed a pretty cool article that talked about using meditation to learn how to look inward objectively (almost like a mechanic) and manage each component of a fear response…breathing, heart rate, etc. If anybody know of any good books or sources that may get me on that path, I’m all ears (eyes).

This was definitely a wake up call, and I plan to keep facing my weaknesses/fears rather than hoping I am never called upon to do so. Thanks to all.

Steve

[kirk]

Re: An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

Read: On Combat by Lt Colonel Dave Grossman

[leejam99]

Re: An incident and a realization about my real enemy…adreneline

There are 2 facts.

1. you can’t never train to completely stop the adrenaline dump from occurring.
2. During the AD, mental faculties decrease, time perception goes haywire, and fine motor control goes out the window.

because of these reasons, its more important to train in a system like KM that emphasize in instinctual movements, stress drilling, and aggressive mine set.

One of the best training i had was with the Full Force training during my phase A. This is where the bad guy comes out in a full padded suit and attacks you. Even though i knew what was about to happen, i experienced full AD. Everything was silent, complete tunnel vision, and i felt like everything was moving in slow motion. It was a TRIP! Luckily, my training came out and i was able to do a 360 block, knee his groin, and a big elbow to his face to knock him on his butt. When i saw the second attacker 10 feet away from me, the affects of the AD was more apparent. During this exercise, i felt like it took 10 seconds of me watching the 2nd attacker come towards me before i defended and attacked back. When i watch the video afterwards, it was more like 2 seconds.

good times!

[Author]

Posts