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Perfect KM SD situation. Has anyone seen the video clips on CNN? I am sure they are on the web someplace but on my low-speed I cannot find it.
You will note three or four guys trying to get the gun from this guy. A simple leverage twist seems like would have worked great.
JC, Monday morning QB 1……
Did you mean this situation where one of the defenders was actually shot and killed? I saw this on the news yesterday. I have low speed, too, so I can’t see it again, unless they show it on the news one more time.
It kind of looked as if one of the defenders was in a gun from the side position and almost tried to do some type of KM disarm from the side. But he may not have known what he was doing exactly. And one guy got killed, so maybe they should have rather complied with the robber in that case.
Two were shot one killed. CNN is running it again today along with interviews of the defenders. I saw at least one guy in a gun from the front defensive position. The initial attack on the guy looked like it avoided a first shot, (Though, I could be wrong). Had they known how to twist it out instead of strength V strength try and take it they might have avoided the shooting. Regardless, if you aren’t trained, maybe it is better to comply. To be honest, if you are SURE all the robber wants is your money, then give it to them. My problem is guys like the pedifile that kidnapped the two young kids after he killed the family, or killers like BTK. You comply, but die anyway. Might as well die fighting or better yet, win……
JC
I saw it on the local news and they only showed a few seconds of it. They didn’t show the part where the defender was shot and killed (probably deemed too gruesome for network TV). Did CNN show that part? I’m just thinking, if I remember to, I could check out the news on a Spanish language station. They usually show more, even the bloody parts.
Yeah, that BTK killer looks like pure evil. If I found that guy in my house, I wouldn’t mind ripping his eye lids off… 😈
>>\”Regardless, if you aren’t trained, maybe it is better to comply.\”
No way! Never, ever, ever comply.
The right answer may not be executing a disarm and going for the gun. It may be to just kick to the groin and run…or just run. But the one thing that every cop will tell you is that compliance leads to control by the attacker. Control gives them the ability to do whatever they want, the most dreaded being going to \”Crime Scene 2\” where you will be raped/killed/tortured.
Monday morning QB – I can’t wait to see the video. I went looking for it earlier when you posted but I have not been able to find it. If it is gruesome, then it will show up on the internet in the new few days. Ill post it if I find it, then we can really do the MMQB thing.
Thanks Siayn
I am sure it will turn up and is worth watching.
I agree with never complying, but cannot make that call for anyone else. For some, I am sure it is better to hope the guy doesn’t lead you to crime scene two. But then, it is up to the indavidual.
JC
re: heres the video
http://www.filecabi.net/u.php?file=1122424599.wmv
Here’s the video of the robbery, the head shot is not there though. 😯
Tough to tell if they were using any technique. Could have been a gun defense from the side but it was a bad camera angle. That is a crappy situation. On one hand, I am glad to see that no one abandoned their friend once he engaged the mugger. On the other hand, it is a shame that one of them had to die for some pocket change.
The muggers groin was just wide open begging to be kicked. I would have liked to have seen one of the guys just tee off on the muggers balls a few times. That would probably have loosened the grip. Judging from the video, it looks like the guy got shot in the head in the very begining once everyone was wrestling for the gun so it would have been too late to save anyone at that point. But if they had actually attacked the guy instead of trying to wrestle the gun out of his hand, maybe they would have been better off. That is why they teach us to counter attack right??
I just pray that I am never in the same situation……..
Nice find! I knew it was only a matter of time, and even better, someone mixed an Eminem song over the top of it. Gotta love the internet. I checked filecabinat, guess I either missed it or it wasn’t up yet.
…(Just as a side note, if anyone is looking for videos of something, filecabinat and putfile are two very popular places to dump videos. By doing a search for \”fight\” on either of those sites you can find dozens of after-school fights, bar brawls, police fights, etc… that are fun to debreif with other Krav people and do the MMQB thing. If you all are interested in discussing I could start a few threads here with some of my favorites.)…
As far as that video goes, it looks like the guy just went for the gun without technique. If the guy is intent on killing you, doing that or running are really your only options. At close range like that I would go for the gun (but of course with some Krav technique.) The reality is, hitting a moving target with a gun is harder than most people think. And with the way that most dumbass gangbangers hold their gun sideways and up in the air, odds are you are going to get away unscathed if you run away from anyone with a handgun, especially a gangbanger.
The other thing I would like to ask this forums experts about at it relates to this video and to other real life situations, is how do you handle your own friends? In this video there is a 3 on 1 situation. That was probably good just for the sheer body-weight overwhelming the guy, but as we saw in the news, one of them is dead (and you can see him on the floor in the end.) For those of us who are trained in Krav, what would you want your non-trained friends to do in this situation? I would love the backup, but at the same time they could screw up the technique and get us all killed.
I have told my wife that in any situation like this her job is to run away, and that she cannot worry about me or come back to make sure I am OK. Her job is to leave the scene, never look back, and go find help.
I would’ve, he should’ve…Guys it’s hard to predict what one would do in this situation, unless they’ve actually been in one.
As you can see it’s chaos, especially with all the people involved. And that’s to us sitting in front of a computer, so to those guys it was beyond chaos. Those superior numbers would’ve been an advantage only if those guys have trained to fight together, like a police or a military team. Other than that it just added to the f…d up situation that was already out of control. Look, I doubt the guy wanted to move them somewhere to have his way with them, I think he just wanted the money. They should’ve just given it to him- there were no kids, spouses or family members there to protect, just wallets. At the end it’s just making a few calls to cancel a credit card VS your family never seeing you again.>>\”I would’ve, he should’ve…Guys it’s hard to predict what one would do in this situation, unless they’ve actually been in one.\”
We all know that. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t talk about it and learn from it. Asking yourself what he should’ve done and thinking about what you would’ve done is the best way to prepare yourself for those situations.
Friends in the situation…..
Interesting question. Unless they are involved in LE or KM most of mine have quit \”playing\” with me. Though, impossible to say, I think most would actually just stand and watch until I won or was killed…..
It is worth noting that with three of them simply trying to ‘pry’ the gun from the killer’s hand, they had a HARD time doing it. I will always defend myself, period, but there are times to WAIT for the right moment, ie, five tangos with AK-47s pointed at your head. Is your money worth you life? Should you just let him or her have the wallet? Should the guys in Boston just PAY the tax for the tea? Really, it is up to you and what you are willing to give up to save your life, or, in this case, die, trying to defend……
JC
Friends, who don’t know Krav Maga can be a problem, but friends who do know it could be, too. What if all three of them go for the gun at the same time, trying to redirect it in different ways and end up keeping it right in place and pointed at them? I guess some prior communications can help. \”In case we are attacked, YOU go get him\” etc 😉
If everybody in the group knows Krav Maga and there is no clear agreement who would do what in a threatening situation I guess I would assume that the person closest to the gun man should make the decision to defend, if he does, maybe the remaining victims should come to his aid only if necessary. They could punch the gun man, staying clear of the line of fire of course, but still giving the primary defender room to make his defense and takeaway. If the weapon is in such a position that either victim could potentially make the defense, I would think the more experienced person should do it.
There are ways to redirect the gun differently, if going a certain way would endanger your friends. If they don’t know Krav Maga and you defend and they want to jump in to help you, just yell at them to stay back, if you think that you have control.
Hi GK! Would multiple defenders really be able to coordinate without prior practice? It would be like trying to do a triple play in baseball with no practice. Maybe it’s something that could be incorporated into a drill.
OT: like my avatar? It’s my actual fist. heh heh
Hey Guerriere!!
Where have you been? Thought we had lost you!
Nice fist indeed. Makes me wobbly just looking at it.
Yes, it would probably be hard to coordinate. That’s why it might be a good idea to discuss what to do in such a situation. Of course, each situation is different, so you never know. But maybe decide who should be in charge, if everyone has an equal chance of defending. Or, if one decides to go for the defense, talk about how the others could help him without getting in his way. Might be something we could work on in a drill or at very least make sure to discuss it with your Krav friends, before going out.
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