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has anyone here trained in arnis or any of the other filipino martial arts?
after learning some knife defenses, this arnis stuff is intriguing. I’m still krav maga for life, but i do like some of their techniques that I’ve seen.Re: Arnis, kali
oh ok cool. i’d thought about taking a class, but i didn’t want to get confused between what they teach and doing things the km way……
Re: Arnis, kali
All just tools for the box, keep what works discard what doesn’t. Its not about the destination its about the journey.
And the journey can be a lot of fun!Re: Arnis, kali
dckm – Ive taken Arnis, specifically Doce Pares. If you want a pretty good intro on it, history channels Human Weapon has an episode on it. There are definitely similarities betwen arnis and krav maga which include being aggresive and that there is no such thing as a fair fight in the streets. What I did find intriguing is that Arnis is a martial art that trains you how to use a weapon first and as you proceed to your black belt then you use empty hand combatives. Again the premise is that if you get in a fight you can pick up what ever is lying on the floor to use as a weapon.
Re: Arnis, kali
thanks for the replies. i’m going to go ahead and take the intro class next thursday.
Jdoc- it’s interesting that you mention the weapons first aspect of arnis. at a knife seminar I went to, we were taught how to attack with the weapon before learning how to defend against attacks. after thinking about it, it’ makes sense, it gives you clues into what the attacker may do……. if he’s untrained, then we have the advantage.
My mind’s made up, I”m going over there next thursday. There’s a school 5 miles from my job that offers it.
Re: Arnis, kali
quote CJs Dad:All just tools for the box, keep what works discard what doesnít. Its not about the destination its about the journey.
And the journey can be a lot of fun!+1 !
If you get into it, get yourself a couple of ActionFlex or SmakStiks and voila – “dogbrothers-lite” – without as much pain/suffering… thumbsup
Re: Arnis, kali
quote Don:+1 !If you get into it, get yourself a couple of ActionFlex or SmakStiks and voila – “dogbrothers-lite” – without as much pain/suffering… thumbsup
well i took the plunge and went last night. not knowing what to expect, i was hoping i wouldn’t be bored as i wanted to go train with otis in gaithersburg. i get to the school and it’s a typical karate dojo. and at first i wasn’t feeling it. the forms and kata are just YUCK. i’m a reality based guy.
the instructor comes in and i decided to change and get ready. we started out with a warmup and then he asked what guys wanted to go over from the previous week. we started with 2 stick drills. VERY cool stuff. however my hands are a little sore. after that we did stick disarms where you’re attacked and you block the attack with a stick and you disarm the attacker. it was fairly easy to grasp. we did 3 disarms, then we moved to knife disarms. also the wrist locks are nice. this style complements krav maga perfectly.
overall i like the symplicity of it and the instructor’s teaching style was very laid back and he emphasized using the disarms you like and that are natural for you.i am seriously considering adding this class as well. with that being said, i’m married to krav maga but arnis just might be my mistress. i enjoyed it, however, i can’t wait for krav maga class tomorrow.
on a side note i got to watch the karate class while they were training. imo – collosal WASTE OF TIME.
no contact, pure forms and just a bunch of pretty much useless stuff on the street.Re: Arnis, kali
dckm – My hands were pretty sore too the first time, your hands are just not use to the hard impact. For me, my hands tend to over sweat so I used weight lifting gloves, very thin and light but it allowed me to have a better grip of the rattan sticks as well as help with the shock absorbing. Im actually shocked they went into stick disarm and knife techniques at that class, they usually start with aggressive attacks with the sticks (throwing in the 12 strikes and 12 blocks), then to the long bo, knife and empty hand last, was it a higher level class?
I definitely do agree with you when it comes down to the katas, its more or less to look fancy during testing and to see if you can remember the movements. Krav and arnis do make a great combo, I have only done krav for a couple months but it seems that they hardly, if any use weapons, I know the military form uses the machine gun to strike with but i’ll most likely get shot at if I walk around Los Angeles with a machine gun on me. With arnis, its nothing but weapon training and it is definitely easy to carry a knife on you.No contact karate? wow that is a waste of time lol. I actually never heard of such a thing. I have seen only one person to utilize Karate effectively in a sport but im pretty sure he can kick anyones a** on the street and thats Lyoto Machida.
Re: Arnis, kali
quote JDOC:dckm – My hands were pretty sore too the first time, your hands are just not use to the hard impact. For me, my hands tend to over sweat so I used weight lifting gloves, very thin and light but it allowed me to have a better grip of the rattan sticks as well as help with the shock absorbing. Im actually shocked they went into stick disarm and knife techniques at that class, they usually start with aggressive attacks with the sticks (throwing in the 12 strikes and 12 blocks), then to the long bo, knife and empty hand last, was it a higher level class?
I definitely do agree with you when it comes down to the katas, its more or less to look fancy during testing and to see if you can remember the movements. Krav and arnis do make a great combo, I have only done krav for a couple months but it seems that they hardly, if any use weapons, I know the military form uses the machine gun to strike with but i’ll most likely get shot at if I walk around Los Angeles with a machine gun on me. With arnis, its nothing but weapon training and it is definitely easy to carry a knife on you.No contact karate? wow that is a waste of time lol. I actually never heard of such a thing. I have seen only one person to utilize Karate effectively in a sport but im pretty sure he can kick anyones a** on the street and thats Lyoto Machida.
i’m not sure if the class was higher level or not. one of the students had been taking it for 4 yrs. the other 3 were fairly new. the instructor is a black belt (Ed Mengel) who trained under Remy Presas. actually we did the number 3 strike, then counterattack with the disarm and he taught 3 variations of that. what i like was that he’d teach 3, and then say use what feels the most comfortable for you, and then we’d practice that. we got into knife disarms because I asked about it. what makes things more ironic is the instructor used to teach at a krav maga school and knows Otis and Jeff Gordon.
and you’re right about those sticks, my hands weren’t used to that contact but i imagine after a few weeks they’d get used to it. the cool thing that i like is that even though i won[‘t walk around with rattan sticks, i WILL walk around with a collapsible baton in my pocket. my biggest decision now is do i want to sacrifice a day of krav maga for this. i think i need to flip a coin lol! I REALLY like training with Otis, but I like this too. decisions decisions.
as far as the karate class goes, they did some light sparring, but the majority of the class was forms. they had punching bags there and the students barely paid them any attention. but that stuff i was them doing is still child’s play compared to what we do in a level 1 krav maga class. our warmups are more intense than their whole 1 hr. class. no joke, those guys didn’t break a sweat in there.
and what’s funnier is i heard one of them down talking krav maga. i just chuckled to myself and said “if you only knew” lol!i’m going to pick up a book today on the 12 strikes and practice the moves i learned here, then beat up on my wavemaster.
here’s a few vids of Ed doing his thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF7cSp2-_yI
Re: Arnis, kali
My recommendation is to get as comfortable/proficient with the techniques as quickly as possible and, just as quickly, try to apply them in a more realistic combative setting (e.g. sparring with all ranges and personal weapons active). You may be surprised at how little opportunity you get to apply many traditionally taught techniques (yes, that also applies to guys who have been studying/teaching it for years)…
Re: Arnis, kali
quote JDOC:I have only done krav for a couple months but it seems that they hardly, if any use weapons, I know the military form uses the machine gun to strike with but i’ll most likely get shot at if I walk around Los Angeles with a machine gun on me.It isn’t emphasised but it’s present to an extent. I train with the IKMF and the current grade I’m going for (P3) involves using sticks offensively and defensively as part of the syllabus although it’s pretty basic stuff. Use of improvised weaponry is also emphasised and ‘scanning’ which is essentially a quick look to the left and right as you’re fighting has as it’s intent giving you more awareness as to what’s around you so you can look for further attackers, the exit, things to use as weapons etc. I’m not sure if either is in the KMWW curriculum though. Certainly if you want to know a bit more about using weapons from a krav perspective then pick up the book by Imi and Eyal as this has a section on improvised weapons.
Re: Arnis, kali
I currently train in Krav and Arnis. I came into Krav about a year of doing Arnis. 90% of my Arnis training was one on one so maybe I was a little more advanced than a typical person that had been training for a year. One of my instructors actually had GM Ernesto Presas(Remys Brother) live w/him for 4 years. Also He’s an instructor @ the Inosanto Academy. As a beginner in Arnis I was thinkin. This is stupid. When in my life am I ever going to be walkin around w/2 sticks in my hand so I can use them and beat an attacker. After time I learned that using the sticks speeds up your hands. You can use all those “forms” empty handed. Using the sticks gets you to having both hands moving in and out back and forth @ once. Alot of the patterns like Redonda and sinwallis are 3 counts and you can turn those into very fluid,stick pattern like strikes. I’ve been trying to bridge Krav and Kali for a while and have been having a hard time. Alot of Krav, I’m seeing is force to force(Please correct me if I’m wrong I’m only a year into Krav). Building the wall of defense and getting behind it. Oh and alot of the weapon defense is “Inside”. I’ve always been taught going to the inside is not always a good idea because the attacker has another hand to defend with. I actually made some videos on this. http://www.youtube.com/user/asiannation99. I’ve been taught if your a 100lb woman and you build a wall of defense against a 300lb man comin in w/a knife. Chances are he will crash your wall. Again please correct or explain to me if I’m wrong or misguided. I haven’t seen alot of knife in Krav because I’m only a level 2. I’m not sure when more weapons get involved. Kali is an art for smaller people. You don’t see alot of big Filipino guys.Not to be racist. So alot of it is redirecting,parrying,stepping on feet.I love Krav for the empty handed applications though. Also you don’t do alot of kicking in Arnis so Krav has greatly improved my kicking. Also alot of empty handed stuff in Kali has to do w/breaks. Theres alot of getting the attackers arm in a lock and breakin it. Krav is more attack,attack till the guy is lying there and you can get away safe. Usually in krav class when we do a defense I will end it in a lock or break or throwing the person in flip so I can land on him head w/my knees. Sometimes my Krav instructors get on me for that because it seems they’re more, punch,kick,kick,punch. I’ll write more or write back later, but I’m @ work suppose to be working.
Re: Arnis, kali
RDA- good post. it’s good to get your perspective on things since you came from that discipline. i also didn’t realize that 2 sticks would speed up your hands. makes sense, and i had the same reaction you did, when am i ever gonna walk around with 2 sticks……
are there breaks in arnis, or is that restricted to kali? we did a few wrist locks in arnis, but it wasn’t stressed.
Re: Arnis, kali
Interesting discussion of the knife attack. We practiced inside defenses against a knife attack the other night and it was very effective. My partner was really trying hard to stab me but I was able to redirect without trouble.
However, the exercise assumed that the attacker would lead with his knife hand. If I ever attacked anyone with a knife, I don’t think I would ever lead with my knife hand. Instead, I would use my free hand to distract and hopefully grab the victim to tie up his defenses until I had an opportunity to stab. I will be interested as I advance in learning how Krav defends against someone who does a better job anticipating a defense and protecting their weapon hand.
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