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Although one of Krav’s biggest points is being aggressive… I wonder if that might actually do more harm than good in some situations against some people.
For example, if you are going against a more skilled opponent… or even a larger opponent who has more reach than you for example… rushing in and doing all this aggressive stuff can cause some to leave themselves opened. Say hello to getting clocked.
I am a smaller woman for example. If I were just to go crazy one, two punch, elbow, knee, claw, etc whatever… before I get through all that, ONE punch gets through and it’s game over. If I were going against another woman, then maybe taking some stray punches are not so bad. I could be more aggressive and not worry as much of making a mistake in defense. Going against a man trying to attack me, all it could take is one punch.
I tend to be more of a “response” based fighter. At Krav, yeah I do the whole aggression thing against a non-moving person or hitting the pad. Outside of Krav when I spar… I more see what the other person is doing.
Why?
I have been punched in the face several times… and this was not even going full strength or full speed. I was thinking, “wow, if it had been a barrage of punches at full strength… I’d probably be out.” It’s caused me to think, if this happens at a lower sparring speed, what would happen if it was all out against someone bigger and stronger???
I tend to rely on push kicks (or a groin kick it were real life). Assuming I could not get those… AND I could not just plain out evade and get away, I would want to get in REAL close to the attacker to avoid getting punched… and see if I could get a groin stoke with my knee or a headbutt from there. Even then, I’m thinking just enough to get away… not demolish the person.
Bottom line, I think going all out could leave some one dangerously open to getting knocked out or greatly injured.
Any thoughts on balancing being aggressive and being tactical?
Re: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
quote kravjitsu:Outside of Krav when I spar… I more see what the other person is doing.A notable difference between what you say above and what Krav is intended for is that you’re not trying to disable your sparring partner. You’re not kicking to the groin, hammerfisting the back of the head, breaking an elbow, gouging eyes, etc. Given that, it’s reasonable to expect your opponent to hit back while sparring.
If you are effective at doing the things above (or similar) in a self defense situation, you should be able to continue your counterattack until your assailant is no longer a threat. There are small women at our school too and their go-to techniques may be different than those of a large, strong man. They won’t tend to be the things you do while sparring.
Re: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
Sparring or sport competition is different than self-defense and fighting to protect or save yourself or someone else.
Re: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
quote Don:Sparring or sport competition is different than self-defense and fighting to protect or save yourself or someone else.Exactly… the guys sparring with me are not going full force and speed. Oh and they have big padded gloves. A guy on the street would be going full force/speed and be using his bare knuckles.
Re: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
You used a very key word in your description, tactical caution.
I’m 6’3″ and 235lbs. It’s unfair and unrealistic to think you can take direct shots from me. The whole idea behind sparring is to condition you mentally and physically, so you can react to the situation at hand without panicking.
Don’t get hit(esp by a much bigger person), attack first, try to avoid those situations….if all else fails, and you find yourself against a much larger opponent, you have to protect yourself as best you can and attack as violently as possible. Those are things you should be learning in class, I hope you are.
It’s never an easy situation, but the idea is to not get into a sparring match with an attacker.
A quick pre-emptive strike, or counter attack is much more effective against an attacker than hitting a guy in the gym who’s expecting to be hit. The attacker is looking for a victim, not an opponent.
Good luck!
Re: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
quote rickprado:It’s never an easy situation, but the idea is to not get into a sparring match with an attacker.That ^ is what I was trying to get at.
They are Totally different “activities”. Training in one won’t necessarily prepare you for the other and could hurt your performance under the Other set of “rules of engagement”.
E.g. if you’re Sparring, most likely you’re taking turns and giving and taking with your partner. Even if you’re going semi-hard with each other, there’s still a sort of “agreement” or “understanding” between you two. If you’re fighting to prevent something bad from happening to you, applying a Sparring mentality and ebb and flow action would be extremely dangerous if not fatal.
Like Rick is saying, it’s unrealistic to expect to beat a bigger, stronger, faster, and more skilled opponent if you’re restricted to fighting Fair and the other guy knows you’re going to fight back And you’re going to fight Fair.
IMO, the “KM aggression” you talk about is Not “designed” for friendly sparring…
Re: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
I think both Krav and what you learn from sparring are useful in a real world situation. Let me give an example from the way back machine. In a former life, I was a bouncer. A 5’8″, 155lb bouncer. Not very intimidating, right? The only reason I wasn’t getting my ass kicked on a weekly basis was that I had a set of go-to moves that I was able to use for most situations.
I think of the defenses in Krav as a set of go-to moves. In other professions they call this a “best practice.” If someone is stupid enough to choke you from the front, you have a best practice. Same goes for a headlock, choke against a wall, etc. That’s what we learn in Krav. If this, then that.
When your “best practice” works, it’s pretty damn cool. I’m thinking specifically of this one jujustu (Japanese, not Brazilian) hold that I would use to toss people out of the club. But every once in a while, as it tends to happen in the real world, I wouldn’t quite nail the move, or the guy would squirm out, or something would happen where I’d find myself facing someone who had gotten away from me and was squared up and ready to fight.
In that situation, I don’t have a best practice. I definitely have some go-to combinations and strategies, but I’m not going to do the same thing every time someone throws a punch because there are too many variables involved. I have to know how to read my opponent, how to move, and how to react. Most of that, I’ve learned from sparring, not from drills. Fighting is always plan B, but you gotta have a plan B.
Re: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
“The attacker is looking for a victim, not an opponent”
Truth right here. They want it quick and painless to them. They have no desire to stay and fight youRe: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
I think some of the replies are missing my point. I get the difference between sparring and a street fight.
I am saying that getting hit in sparring sucks, let alone if it was an actual street fight.
I have seen plenty of street fights where someone is just going all hard core punching aggressively and because they are focusing more on aggression than on defense they leave themselves opened to getting clocked hard.
As a small woman, I don’t have the luxury to “leave myself open” in particular by just going bat crazy with aggressive strikes. All it would likely take is one good punch from the attacker and game over. I am NOT talking about sparring but an actual fight.
It seems like evasion and just enough to push or kick the attacker away is better. I wish Krav would focus more on how a smaller person, especially a woman should handle themselves because aggressive striking an attacker can really backfire.
I just mention sparring because the hits I have taken in sparring really make me leery of taking an actual hit in a real fight that’s full speed and force. It motivates me to stay out of punching range as much as possible. Krav seems to promote a bunch of aggressive strikes within punching range to an attacker and that just doesn’t seem the wisest strategy to me.
Re: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
Maybe I’m missing your points and maybe you’re missing my points as well. Hypothetically, why are you engaged in a “street fight” to begin with? “Street fight” meaning a situation where one or more people are engaging in mutual combat with each other – as opposed to defending yourself with violence against a violent assault.
My aggression analogy is what a stereotypical cat will do if you try to put it in a bathtub full of hot water. Pretty much it’s going to do everything it can not to go in the water, to make you let go, and to get away from you. It’s likely Not going to then advance on you and leave itself available to be re-caught or open to counter attack.
If you have to advance to reach an opponent or attacker, why aren’t you taking that opening to run away, to yell for help, to arm yourself with a dedicated or improvised weapon, etc?
I’m not sure you understand the difference between sparring with someone and being attacked by someone. Maybe you could ask your instructor or training partners (with approval from your instructor) to provide some defense against violent assaults that are Not give/take/countering in sparring. If you’re ready for something like that I think you’ll quickly see how much worse it can be for you if you don’t defend yourself going all out…
Re: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
As far as “street fight”, for me, if I am in the street or wherever and I am attacked so I have to fight back then yeah to me it’s a street fight. I’m in the street and I’m fighting. Don’t want to argue over terms. Point is I am being attacked.
As far as advancing… that was kind of my point, to not advance but to more evade and do enough to get away…BUT to stay out of the mid-range (punching) at all costs even if THEY are trying to advance. Not seeing how you are missing what I said above.
Again, you are not capturing why I mentioned sparring at all. No offense, so let’s just forget about that.
Re: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
Apparently wires are being crossed in both directions so I’ll bow out – I recommend you bring up your concerns with your instructors so you can show them what you’re talking about and they can address them right then and there…
Re: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
quote kravjitsu:As far as advancing… that was kind of my point, to not advance but to more evade and do enough to get away…That’s what you should do. Is someone telling you different?
WRT the “do enough to get away” part, that’s where the idea of continuous attacks come in. You don’t throw one combative and then wait to see what happens, you attack until you can disengage and get away.
Re: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
KMyoshi’s sig says it pretty well. Your school should be teaching you the same thing but it’s the sort of thing that many instructors consider so obvious that maybe they don’t stress it as much as they should. And while size is a factor, it’s equally true for all of us. The bad guy may have a concealed weapon or friends we don’t see so we should all get the hell away from him if we can.
“Always avoid, escape, talk down, loop hole if you can, don’t be physical unless you really have to be physical, because it really isn’t the answer. If you have to be physical, be first and be ferocious. Take them off the planet. But if you can avoid it then you must.”
– Geoff ThompsonRe: Balancing Aggression With Tactical Caution
Attempt to avoid tension, de-escalate tension, remove yourself from a situation, and fight with overwhelming violence to escape. If you have enough space and time that you have to stop striking because they’re too far away, you have time to evade and escape until you’re re-engaged. When you are re-engaged, fight like the 3rd monkey in line for the Ark.
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