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Guns work great in thwarting a crime, such as you coming up on a mugging, etc. If you are the one being mugged, you might have some deployment problems trying to beat the other guy to the trigger. It’s not impossible, it just requires a lot of training. In fact, even if you have your gun out in the low ready, if someone draws down on you first, the average person would still have trouble popping a shot off first. Cops get shot like this all the time.
I think the best plan is to be a skilled kravist and perhaps carry as back up. But, I’ll also tell you, Carrying, even a small handgun, is a giant pain in the butt. Concealment is difficult if you want it in a highly deployable position…I just don’t recommend it for the average person.
The \”pain in the butt\” is a reason why many LEOs don’t usually carry a gun on their person when off duty. Almost every LEO I know prefers not to…I usually don’t carry when I’m not working — one the vehicle sure, but rarely with me.
I am in the process of getting a CWP right now. Mainly for running, a girl was recently beaten to death 2 miles from one of my favorite trails, so I decided some backup to my level one Krav skills was in order. I think carrying without any Krav type skills isn’t too smart, but a lot of gun enthusiasts I know are really overweight, smokers etc, so I’m not sure what a good solution would be.
I just watched Colaterial with tom Cruz and Jamie Fox. Good Flic.
Theres a great scene where he takes out some hold up guys with his pistol. Watch that, and if you carry a gun be prepared to do that.
Guns are great for intimidation but when that fails, are you prepared to shot? This is what you have to ask yourself.
Knives also, and they can be taken away from you more easily.
But their are many, many storys of people deploying a weapon and having the bad guys just back away….so it is a great option.
Personally I don’t like what people become when they have to base their lifestyle around a weapon. It is not the type of power I am looking for. This may be another reason why Police officers mentioned above, do not carry when off duty. But it is great to have in the car, or in the home, or with you on certain events like jogging, carrying money…
8)
My personal feeling is that if someone attacks me, they are no better than an animal. No one would hesitate to shoot a cougar thats attacking you. I hope that I’ll never be in such a situation, but I plan to react to any human attacker the way I would an animal.
I’m a little disturbed by the types that are all consumed by their guns, I’m equally disturbed by those similarly absorbed by various martial arts. Although the \”gun nuts\” are scarier and do more political damage, but that’s another discussion.
CaliWT–Yes, I saw Collateral this weekend also and liked it.
Runnergirl–question: what timeof day do you run?
I brought this question up because I was reading another forum (related to fitness) and this lady said that she carries one. Everyone else went on to say \”well if you feel safe…and we have choices about our personal defense.\” I feel that people who carry guns and do not feel safe think it’s easier to have a gun with them than not. Do you think it’s a lack of learning how to defend themselves or think, \”but I wouldn’t be able to get away from a big guy.\” (A quote I have heard recently from someone I use to work with)
There’s always the option of pepper spray- some people don’t believe in it, but its better than nothing. There’s also a number of knives that are very hard to take away- Smith and Wesson’s claw badge knife, the Hibben Claw 2, Fred Perrin’s La Griffe, Karambits and folding karambits. One of the best weapons if you don’t want to carry some heavy dangerous weapon is Comtech’s stinger. look into those- a small piece of plastic that works in seamlessly with krav or other self defense skills. There are many options besides guns. When I backpack, I carry a Cold Steel sjambok (for people or animals), either mounted across the back of the pack or within a walking stick. I carry a knife everywhere because they’re so useful for utility reasons. Sometimes I carry a small flashlight at night. A good cane is a fine weapon. There’s tons of options as far as weight, size, concealability, level of force, legal considerations, etc.
Runnergirl: what do you mean about people who are absorbed by various martial arts? I just don’t see the connection with gun people.
Well, the main problem with a gun is using it in the Wrong situation, where it is not needed. So it takes a great amount of personal responcibility. And if you shot a cougar, you don’t have district attornys and police detectives to answer to.
which leads to the second point. Trained Martial artists are generally responcible enough to use a hand gun because they can use other methods first to de-escalate the situation. Same with cops, they have the expeirence and personal authority to defuse things verbally and with body language. We know when we need a gun and when we don’t.
Inscure people do not, and carrying a gun just reinforces their insecurity with themselves. And if they really aren’t ready to use it, it will just get taken from them.
As a side story, when I was in high school I had some shady friends. You know, fools that liked to clean guns when watching football and or liked to shot them out into the yard just to see if they could. So one of these guys ,that was actually real smart and more responcible, one night gives me this plastic toy gun. He tells me to carry it around as we go to partys and says to pretend it’s real, to feel what it feels like to have that power in your pants.
His point was this. It could and does make you act foolish. I’ll talk back to that guy cause I got a gun. I’ll cut that bad drive off…I’ll jog through that ally cause i got a gun… you get my drift. I appriciated it because it made me realize alot of people i knew or meet were probly carrying pistols and made me much more careful…and find new friends 😀
Always Carry At All Times Except For Legal Limitations
i’m pretty surprised myself. but aren’t cops always required to carry a firearm with them at all times? i can understand not having one when visiting a prison or engaging in alcohol event. but otherwise, whouldn’t it be a violation of departmental policy? despite having a background in wrestling, jujitsu, fma, jkd, combatives, muay thai, and military law enforcement/security/corrections, i always carry (have a ccw permit=good for 5 yr.s) wherever i am legally allowed at all times. i am not too worried about comfort. it is better to have it and not need it than the other way around. i carry pepper spray, tactical folding knife, and semiautomatic pistol w/spare mag. i even carry all or some of them even when making a trip to my car, checking my mailbox, or even taking out the garbage. but these are for worse case scenarios only. however, when i have to venture in places in which i am not legally allowed to pack, even my knife (ex.=court/foreign country/public school), this is where situational awareness, avoidance, and unarmed combat (including improvised weapons) come into play. regardless, the most important weapon is your hearing and what’s between your ears.
ps:cali, just for information, the stuff tom cruise used to take out 2 attackers were the speed rock (double tap) and the isosceles stance (three shots), and then a coup de grace to the head of the first attacker. as you guys can see, my background is well balanced and open-minded, not just absorbed into just guns or martial arts/combatives alone.
quote :i carry pepper spray, tactical folding knife, and semiautomatic pistol w/spare mag.This is a problem, if you believe that reaction/decision-making time is directly proportional to the number of alternatives/options given (Hick’s Law). It also becomes problematic if you are engaged in a struggle, because you now have to worry about retention of three weapons.
Re: Always Carry At All Times Except For Legal Limitations
quote :i’m pretty surprised myself. but aren’t cops always required to carry a firearm with them at all times? i can understand not having one when visiting a prison or engaging in alcohol event. but otherwise, whouldn’t it be a violation of departmental policy?Depends on the dept.’s SOP. Mine only requires it off duty if you are driving a cruiser. I’ve always got at least 2 firearms with me in my cruiser any way. But, otherwise it isn’t required. I’m in Maryland and the SOP is the same on this for many of our alied agencies as well. Virginia too.
leftie- I usually run during daylight, but will run before light (5am ish) when I have to. The issue for me is more about isolation. If a woman goes through the CWP process, she’s hopefully more mentally prepared than the women who know no self defense and think carrying a cell phone will save them. I think all women should take Krav or something similar, regardless of weather they carry or not.
CLF- Gun nuts and martial arts nuts are equally obsessive (just over different things). Same goes for the guys obsessed with weight lifting or women who scrapbook 24/7. Life should have some balance.
I tried reading the local laws about carrying a knife, and I was totally lost. The summeries I’ve read basically say knives of any kind are no-nos here. Also, I think a knife requires more skill, and while I can find a range with defensive pistol classes, I don’t know of anywhere that teaches knife tactics.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not in any way saying all gun people are crazy. I just wanted to point out that they can lead to some problems. that they are not a be all end all solution. I would rather have alot more people out their protected with guns, just as long as its the right people!!
and those double taps in tight groups where sweet, even if tom was a bad guy, those punks where even worse 😀
Hmm..
Most LEO’s I know prefer to carry when off duty.
I’ve legally carried for a few years, and I feel that a weapon is a great addition to any self defense tools at your disposal.
What happens if you run in to a group of 15+ bent on hurting you? Or a small woman runs into 3 or more very large men bent on raping her? I think in any situation like that the potential victim would be better served with a firearm.
It is very important however, to be comfortable with the weapon, and choose an appropriate concealment holster/clothing. So that the weapon is concealed, but quickly accessible. And like ALWAYS you should be aware of your surroundings at all times.
My 2 cents….
Why I am here.
I stumbled on this board looking for more information and I saw this thread. I felt it necessary to reply. It’s one in the morning here and I still can’t get to sleep.
Tonight around 8 or 9pm my car broke down near my house. While walking from the gas station in my home neighborhood I was accosted by a young male. This is the first time I’ve been in this kind of situation. He had his hand behind his back the whole time and I assumed he was packing. While he was talking the whole time I was slowly backing up, and by the time he was asking for my money my hand was on my gun. His tune quickly changed to \”I don’t want no trouble man\” with both hands in the air, but if he was armed I am not sure I could have fired before he would have gotten off a shot. I am nasious and shaky just recounting the story here.
I’m not sure if martial arts training or additional firearm training would benefit me in this kind of situation, but I can assure you I will be seeking out both.
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