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Re: Criticizing krav knife
That video is unreal… I found myself talking to them saying “FREAKING KICK HIM IN THE DAMN FACE!!”
How she survived that I have no idea. He was single minded and focused on the task of killing her, hence the stabs to the neck. WOW.
Re: Criticizing krav knife
I can see where a KM defense would be successful in nearly all the above videos. From what I can tell from most of the knife attack videos I’ve seen is that the majority of knife-wielding attackers don’t handle one very well; they just thrust or come down from above, although most of them do so aggressively. Today in Christian’s class in Sherman Oaks we drilled a bum-rush defense, which would have even come in handy in the Inejiro Asanuma assassination footage on YouTube, where an attacker was rushing him from the side. So, isn’t a KM knife defense just as effective a technique for disarming and neutralizing a knife threat as a FMA technique? Granted, FMA offers more options in terms of counter-attacking and stripping a weapon, but when it comes down to it, both FMA and KM are blocking, controlling, countering, neutralizing, and possibly killing… right?
Re: Criticizing krav knife
Christian cover Mikes 12:00?
To answer your question yes would work extremely well the difference is that in KM we teach a quick way to get you up to speed with no flash or flowery techniques.
Address the immediate danger no matter what it is and return with a vicious counter until threat is neutralized.
The FMA defense/counter takes longer to learn and I’ve found to me a lot more timing based response.
I will say this, a few days ago I was training with Burton and Harry Shaw both attacking me same time with weapons and there were several times when FMA came out of me while tired and under pressure. But I have years of training in both styles so really its right tool for the moment.
As one of the onlookers said “don’t know what that was it wasn’t krav but man did that look cool”
Guess I would have failed expert but looked good while doing it 🙂Re: Criticizing krav knife
quote Kirsten:That video is unreal… I found myself talking to them saying “FREAKING KICK HIM IN THE DAMN FACE!!”How she survived that I have no idea. He was single minded and focused on the task of killing her, hence the stabs to the neck. WOW.
That vid is so extreme.. indeed, the guy looks like he must be under the influence of something and / or psychotic – he has such focus on his deed & looks so dazed when they finally pull him off…
Judging by the makeup up the persons on the scene – Turks, Moroccans & working class Dutch people, this incident would have taken place in the Dutch equivalent of the ‘hood.
I found more about the incident on a Dutch crime blog:
http://pasteurella.blogspot.com/2007/06/eis-40-maanden-voor-neersteken-ex.htmlThe victim apparently really did survive, although she received more than 70 stab wounds (!)… ‘Claire’ was attacked by her ex-boyfriend ‘Marcel Van L’ of Rotterdam, who claimed he went to see her carrying flowers with the intention to make up, ‘but lost his cool’. The judge wondered why he was carrying two knives on his person if his intent was to make up.
The video played a hugely important role in the subsequent court case & the attacker got a 4 year jail sentence, but 2 weeks later apparently this was amended to a sentence in an asylum for the criminally insane ( I assume for 4 years) where he’ll be passing the time doing music therapy, arts & crafts and group therapy.
Gotta love that Dutch justice system!
quote jstrauss:I can see where a KM defense would be successful in nearly all the above videos. From what I can tell from most of the knife attack videos I’ve seen is that the majority of knife-wielding attackers don’t handle one very well; they just thrust or come down from above, although most of them do so aggressively.Absolutely – the probable effectiveness and logic of the KM knife defenses really becomes clear upon seeing all these real World attack scenarios.
Re: Criticizing krav knife
quote :The FMA defense/counter takes longer to learn and I’ve found to me a lot more timing based response.I’ve only been training in KM for a little over a month, so I don’t know if the following also applies to it, but what I like about the FMA is an angle-of-attack defense. Based on my limited KM experience, I can see this philosophy applied via the 360 defense. We were running a drill this morning where our partner was pressuring us with punches and rushes from all angles, moving us around the room, into corners, walls, obstacles, and each other, and I found myself instinctively blocking angular attacks instead of reacting to which attack my partner was throwing. For example, when my partner threw a hammer fist from overhead, I just found myself thinking block that attack from above, and when he attacked from the side, I thought to block that attack from the side, not he’s throwing a hammer fist from over my head, use block 1 and he’s throwing a hook, use block 3.
My point is that regardless of how well a knife is used, there are only so many angles from which it can be thrust. It’s either coming from above, below, the side, or an angle in-between, and KM defenses seem to work appropriately (from what I know so far, anyway). I think a bigger danger is how long the blade is. My colleague at work (who I’ve been trying to get to join and train with me) is a fencer, so I’d be particularly afraid to defend against a sabre or a foil, especially against someone who knows how to use it. (Are there defenses for long edged weapons in KM?) Even the 8- and 10-inch blades some of the attackers use in the videos can be defended with KM defenses. Plus, the one thing I have to keep reminding myself is that a successful defense means you escape alive; some people seem to think the success of a defense rests on whether or not you get stabbed at all, which, in all likelihood, you probably will, or at least get cut.
Re: Criticizing krav knife
quote jstrauss:My point is that regardless of how well a knife is used, there are only so many angles from which it can be thrust. It’s either coming from above, below, the side, or an angle in-between, and KM defenses seem to work appropriately (from what I know so far, anyway). I think a bigger danger is how long the blade is.The further away from your body you block & with a good ‘body defense’ the better.
There’s also straight stab defenses in KM that come up in more intermediate levels.quote jstrauss:Plus, the one thing I have to keep reminding myself is that a successful defense means you escape alive; some people seem to think the success of a defense rests on whether or not you get stabbed at all, which, in all likelihood, you probably will, or at least get cut.Our instructor tells us constantly while training knife scenarios that its a seriously bad situation where the chances are you’d get cut or maybe worse, but as pointed out, the successful outcome is survival / avoiding getting cut or stabbed further. We do a drill occasionally where someone starts stabbing you from behind in a prison yard rush / ambush scenario & you have to react and defend as soon as possible so as to not get further ‘injury’ or worse….
I like the no BS factor in KM…
Re: Criticizing krav knife
quote Chocolate Soldier:We do a drill occasionally where someone starts stabbing you from behind in a prison yard rush / ambush scenario & you have to react and defend as soon as possible so as to not get further ‘injury’ or worse….Hey… I like that one. We were doing some drills earlier in the week.
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