Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type)

[mowhawk1982]

Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type): Conclusion

In conclusion:

General tactics

1. Biting
2. Sit up + bear hug
3. Deaden the nerve in order to pry it off

Specialized tactics

1. Figure 4 can be destroyed by shoving a hand between the gap and with a little support in worst case scenario (3. General tactics).
2. Engaging a front scissors by shoving a hand between the shins turn and pry.

Bottom line, almost anyone is strong enough to choke you out if you are foolish enough to let them get a leg wrap on your neck. So don’t do that.

I really appreciate your ideas which are derived from real life experience, as far as I can tell. Who of you guys escaped a regular female headscissor choke, either forward, sideward, backward (with or without pin straddle), figure 4 in any shape or form, in real life? I don’t mean half assed chokes.

Although it doesn’t have exactly high priority in krav maga training, it is not exactly far fetched that a back-stabbing girlfriend could wrap her legs arround your neck in a moment of carelessness.

[mowhawk1982]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type): Conclusion

Here is an example for a pin straddle reverse head scissors. Do you guys see any chance to excape?

My idea is to use your legs to apply a scissor choke yourself by sliding your arms sideways or some form of guilotine choke.

[don]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type): Conclusion

quote MOWHAWK1982:

Here is an example for a pin straddle reverse head scissors. Do you guys see any chance to excape?

Nope. The red X box maneuver is one I’ve Never been able to avoid, defeat, circumvent, escape, etc. I’m hoping Kevin Mack or CJ’s Dad will come up with something soon – and also for the 404 not found attack…

:chair::D:

[cjs-dad]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type)

If I understand the attack correctly, I would think if you bridge and drive the shoulder in you can spin far enough to make space for breathing room then do leverage on ankle or simply escape.

Think about how we do defense for rear naked choke on the ground in this case with the bridge we are trying to drive their legs closer to their body and place leverage on their hips.

[cjs-dad]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type)

UPDATE: Just tried this with one of my students, it was unfortunate – for him.

[mowhawk1982]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type)

quote CJs Dad:

UPDATE: Just tried this with one of my students, it was unfortunate – for him.

I assume you either got out sound and save or he failed to get out. :Unsure: Needless to say that those situations are usually staged but AFAIK in krav maga you cannot always fight from a advantageous position.

He couldn´t have bitten himself out because of the pants and couldn´t have pryed because of the pin straddle. Imagine those tights would have been athletic that would have added a certain amount of pain to it. :banghead:

Trying to push your arms sidewards and to put her head into a simple head scissor choke or triangle choke sounds like an option to me. Other than bringing your arms into the equation soon enough to avoid to be straddled in the first place.:box:

[don]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type)

As long as we’re ASSuming… I think it’s funny/peculiar that you’re devoting So much attention to this particular position. I’m ASSuming you’re already proficient at escaping/defending all the other more common positions of disadvantage (e.g. BG mounted and striking, BG behind and choking, etc)? Or are you preparing for a worst case scenario while mud wrestling against some female adult entertainers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-tPJYlcYvc

[mowhawk1982]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type)

quote Don:

As long as we’re ASSuming… I think it’s funny/peculiar that you’re devoting So much attention to this particular position. I’m ASSuming you’re already proficient at escaping/defending all the other more common positions of disadvantage (e.g. BG mounted and striking, BG behind and choking, etc)? Or are you preparing for a worst case scenario while mud wrestling against some female adult entertainers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-tPJYlcYvc

I am looking for the truth of the matter because I have no real life experience and it is hard to find out what is possible if you read some claims at common places of the internet. The 1st common claim is that female legs would be stronger by default than male legs – assuming same body size and weight, the 2nd common claim derives from the 1st, it says therefore you couldn´t excape it.

The 1st one is hard to rebut, cuz AFAIK there wasn´t any clinical study yet who has proven or refuted this claim and there are so many factors involved.

In case of the 2nd one you find a lot of hearsay, claims based on personal experience without any facts who could make it falsifiable and some bragging wives and girls + some staged fights on the internet which are meant to end this way. A guy ended up in the proberly applied muscular scissors of his vindictive wife and claimed due to the pain he couldn´t get out. What kind of head scissors was it? Did he use dirty tricks before the pain was too much to bear? Was he pind straddled? No information.

Actions in BJJ and MMA are restricted by a set of rules and hobby wrestler ain´t professionals. Even if Krav Maga is more about prevention than cure its unrestricted nature led me to this forum. I just wanna be prepared if the inevitable happens. I have Ideas but what if I underestimate the pressure and overestimate my motor functions? That´s why the input of you pros is so valuable to me. thumbsup

[don]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type)

quote MOWHAWK1982:

I just wanna be prepared if the inevitable happens.

That is what I’m talking about. What is so “inevitable” about this particular position or circumstance?

IMO, you’re probably gonna get attacked or caught in a variety of other ways/positions than this one and, also IMO, IF you were so good that all the other attacks/positions of disadvantage don’t worry you, I would imagine this one wouldn’t/shouldn’t worry you either…

I’ve been training and rolling around for a little while. I have yet to have had that particular submission applied or attempted on me – assuming I’m accurately picturing what you’re talking about because I still haven’t seen a picture or video of it – but then again, I’m not going around intentionally pissing off lady wrestlers either…

[mowhawk1982]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type)

quote Don:

That is what I’m talking about. What is so “inevitable” about this particular position or circumstance?

IMO, you’re probably gonna get attacked or caught in a variety of other ways/positions than this one and, also IMO, IF you were so good that all the other attacks/positions of disadvantage don’t worry you, I would imagine this one wouldn’t/shouldn’t worry you either…

I’ve been training and rolling around for a little while. I have yet to have had that particular submission applied or attempted on me – assuming I’m accurately picturing what you’re talking about because I still haven’t seen a picture or video of it – but then again, I’m not going around intentionally pissing off lady wrestlers either…

With inevitable I mean you would be caught off guard and had to get out of it in some ambush setting. Nothing is really inevitable, unless you talk about circumstances. If I were an experienced fighter, why would I ask experienced fighter about it to get a more compelling answer? I am not yet a practitioner.

It is a reverse head scissors with pin straddled wrists – matchbox pinstraddle? -in some sort of leather leggins. The direct link to the images was probably removed by the server connection.

Only the legs are really free. I could imagine that you cannot bite and you cannot punch – at least not until she is weak enough to let go. That makes it tricky. :Unsure: Maybe you could get your wrists free without suffering to much pain on your neck to be incapable of getting out. :Unsure:

What do you think, is there some merit to the myth of the stronger legged females? :):

[cjs-dad]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type)

quote MOWHAWK1982:

What do you think, is there some merit to the myth of the stronger legged females? :):

I think I answered your question thumbsup

I also think this entire thread is borderline comical I wouldn’t have even answered it if Don hadn’t invited me into it.

Krav Maga is a reality based self defense system, emphasis on “reality” I don’t see most if any of your line of questions as being based in reality.

We might as well be talking about defense against the jumping spinning flying monkey kick™

[mowhawk1982]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type)

quote :

Krav Maga is a reality based self defense system, emphasis on “reality” I don’t see most if any of your line of questions as being based in reality.

What in particular is not based in reality?

Experience is based in reality and facts are based in reality. That means there is no way an opponent would utilize some sort of head or body scissors in “real life” to get a hold on you and the use is solely limited to a wrestling match, right? Therefore the question if a female opponent had an advantage due to her ostensible more effective or stronger legs, would be moot, since there is no way she could use that as an advantage. I don´t think this is true.;):

quote :

I think I answered your question

So you can achieve nothing with your legs, neither weaken the grip nor put her or him in some sort of choke. :Unsure:

quote :

UPDATE: Just tried this with one of my students, it was unfortunate – for him.

What does it mean? :dunno:

[cjs-dad]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type)

quote MOWHAWK1982:

What does it mean? :dunno:

It means the defense I posted – answering your question – worked well versus the highly unrealistic attack you keep inquiring about.

I think we are done here, unless theres some other improbable scenario you’d like us to figure out.

[mowhawk1982]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type)

quote CJs Dad:

It means the defense I posted – answering your question – worked well versus the highly unrealistic attack you keep inquiring about.

I think we are done here, unless theres some other improbable scenario you’d like us to figure out.

Thanks a lot. thumbsup I am kinda obsessive about defenses sometimes. :Deadhorse:

[northernsoul]

Re: Defense against a female head scissor choke (non athletic type)

I just read this whole thread. My head hurts.

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