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\”Otherwise why did Imi gave the highest rank to an Israeli?\”
That seems pretty obvious. Who else would he have given it to at the time? Surely the amount of time in the system played a tremendous role, which obviously would benefit an Israeli, since the training was scarcely available outside of Israel. I also don’t really understand what that has to do with anything either. Are you defending Israel as the end-all be-all of Krav Maga, or an individual? Anyway, it doesn’t matter. This time is wasted, which I’ve tried to say many times. These discussions go nowhere and typically only serve to create greater fissures between organizations.
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quote \”kmman\:What does this mean? It means Krav Maga is still refined, improved and tested in Israel. It is still the center or capital of Krav Maga.I take issue with this statement, since I believe it goes against the principle of KM being an open system. KM is refined, improved and tested at every school where it’s practiced. There many folks teaching KM, all over the world that are adding to the system every day probably. At NTC there’s tons of cross-polination and refinement, just through experience. In the long term I believe it’s a good thing! Otherwise all martial arts would still be doing katas and learning to defend against mounted cavalry. Look, brazilians brought in wrestling coaches and sambo guys to improve those aspects, the Thai added western boxing to improve their hand techniques. Why not Krav?
As an Israeli who lives in the US
I have to say that Israelis just do every single thing better than Americans. Like, like, well, I am sure there are some good examples somewhere.
Seriously, I have seen these posts and never commented (I rarely comment) but thought I would add my $0.02, so some of this may stray into things on other threads both on the organizations and on the random Israelis that keep showing up teaching Krav Maga. Krav maga can be used as a generic term in Israel. Many Israeli combat soldiers are taught \”krav maga\” in the military that has nothing to do with what we learn. How many times does your class go over how to strike with your rifle butt if your weapon is malfunctioning? Also, the average Israeli combat soldier does not necessarily have a good knowledge of unarmed fighting. If you have been training for a while, you could likely take on an unarmed Israeli combat grunt. They just don’t practice hand to hand that much (from what I understand).
The Israeli military’s superior performance is certainly not based on unarmed or even light weapons combat. They won in 1967 because of good intelligence, a superior air force, and effective mobile tank warfare, not because the average soldier was throwing good hammer fist punches.
Veterans of Israeli special forces/elite units are a dime a dozen. Any good size Israeli family probably has at least one. Combined with the fact that most Israelis think they know everything, it is no wonder that a bunch of people are going to claim to have the \”even better system\” and since they are opportunistic, still call it Krav Maga.
It seems to me like, there are two very good reasons for keeping the name Krav Maga tightly controlled in the US.
1) Somebody can be rewarded for working to promote it.
2) Quality control. Everybody that knows Israelis knows that they are good opportunists. I don’t mean to be negative, but they are very savvy. You open it up and tons of them will open shop. Some will know what they are doing, some won’t. There will be no consistency.
It seems like the best solution is to make it easy for people who are legit to affiliate with the KMAA or just let them do their thing, but aggressively prevent others from just exploiting the name.
I also think the threads here should be allowed because the discussion will happen somewhere, and it might as well be here where it can be observed. Plus, I highly doubt it impacts anyone’s decision to join their local school.
Ryan,
In my post I did not mention any name or organization. I hope you did realize this.
Emil,
Open system does not mean anybody can add, take out or change techniques. There was always a board of finest and highest ranked instructors who had opportunity with the head of the system, as new threats came up, or even future problems came into pictures. It would be very sad, if just anybody could change, what people with great background created and tested. So again, there are folks who are responsible for changes, they got permission from Imi. The good things you can tell them the problems, and if it is a real problem, they are willing to check or even change, as I understand. Can anybody suggest? Yes. Can anybody change? I dont think so…
FOM,
Nobody says Israelis are supermen. Lets keep the discussion realistic…:) The person who is in charge of Krav Maga education for IDF is a student of Eyal Yanilov, head of IKMF. But this is not what I really wanna say. It is obvoius the Krav Maga what the civilians are learning are different from what soldiers are learning. Different goals, different tools, but if you go through a military instructor course and a civilian instructor course, you will learn many similar things. Except, no rifle. But the training metodology, the way of thinking is very close. I beleive Imi designed both line, civilian and military. So, must be some correlation, right? My experince is, yes.
Unarmed combat for a soldier is almost last thing to do. Assumption is, he is carrying rifle and maybe even a pistol. Heavy armoured. Normally using the rifle or other tools before ever would think about unarmed combat. (Although many units this days almost work as police, either doing peace keeping missions, or chasing terrorist.)True. But again there are dozens of techniques you learn as civilian reflecting to military techniques like defense agains some stick attacks, knife attacks or threats etc.
Sorry for long post.
kmman, I’m no genius, but it’s pretty obvious where your allegiances lie (which is fine.) 😉
\”So again, there are folks who are responsible for changes, they got permission from Imi.\”
Okay, so read the \”CERTIFICATE AND DECLARATION FROM GRAND MASTER\” on this page:
https://kravmaga.com/certificates.asp
Pay particular attention to nos. 5, 6, and 7.
Anyway, to each his own. Let’s train.
Anybody ever wonder how he became a black belt in two years yet no one is certified in two years now to reach black belt status. No matter how many days a week you practice.
And you could say oh he trained with Imi or other bb’s but does anyone that trains with bb’s exclusively in the U.S. make it to bb in that short of time? Not to say he didn’t have other background first but most people here do also.
Actually, from what I have observed, people are being elevated to BB faster and faster… Makes sense, too, because who would want to train with a head instructor who is only an orange or green belt? Black belt suggests someone is an expert, so if we want to grow quickly, we need to get more black belts fast.
I know some years ago there was talk about getting rid of the belt system, maybe it wouldn’t be such a bad idea.
As for who gets to change techniques… Are there any rules about that? Could each individual organisation make their own changes? If that were the case could be that, in a couple of years (or decades?), the Krav Maga taught by the various organisations might look very different from one another. Then, what would be the \”real\” Krav Maga?
By the way, we do work on rifle technique in higher levels, even sometimes on rifle strikes (if you are out of ammo) and defending against a rifle strike using your own rifle.
Giantkiller,
Reaching black belt early not always good, although I am not referring the case above. As I know Eyal Yanilov was Darren’s instructor – and some other lower ranked fine instructors – and as I know when there was only one association – IKMA – Eyal was responsible to work out the training methodology, and he was the chief of board of Black Belts. So pretty much he was responsible for changes back then, and still, as he holds the highest grade from the founder. Not many knows, but this is the case.
I do not know how much does it take to reach black belt level in the USA in Krav Maga, in Europe it takes a long time. But same with TKD, Karate, Kick Box anyting you name. About 7-8 years. I have BB american friends with 2 years of training. Again, no analogy, it is dfferent case.
Oh my god.
The idea that anyone would questions Darren’s credentials is ridiculous. I’m sorry, you can debate trademarks and organizations all you want, but come on! Arguing against it would lend it the credence of a debatable issue, and it’s not.Anybody who wants to get to a black belt with us is welcome to go through the training and see what it takes.
Most people go through 5-7 years of training to get to black belt. A few people have done it faster. The question isn’t the time, it’s their knowledge and ability.
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\”Oh my god.
The idea that anyone would questions Darren’s credentials is ridiculous.\”Not really my intent though I disagree with your statement.
John,
I do not question Darren’s level. I have other problems, which I was never hiding from you, even shared in private mails. My only point is, whatever system I have trained before, I still have my deepest respect for my ex-instrctor. I beleive it is normal. But again, it is probably a uniqe point.
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