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Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
Men and women partner all the time at KMW in West LA. As for ground fighting the same applies. There are usually no issues or at least I have not heard of one. In fact many women prefer to partner with men because that is what would happen in the real world
Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
To the original poster:
As a woman who has trained in Kung Fu for five years and am just beginning Krav, I would say that maybe you are not at the right school.
My Sigung would always said you want to partner with the masters, because that is the only way to really get exponentially better. I believed him too after he dropped me like a sack of potatoes with a pinch to the nerve under my arm. 🙂
I am glad my Krav school makes no distinction and I will tell you why. If you do not learn the technique on people of differing abilities, sizes and strengths, then, I feel, you are completely wasting your time.
My school is very challenging sometimes because the men don’t go easy on you just because you are a girl, in particular when holding pads. That is part of what attracted me to it though. Chances are that 4/5 times if you get assaulted you are going to be assaulted by a guy, so I would rather have it be realistic training than not.
Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
We are a small school so there is only one class for all levels. Many of the boys are military or law enforcement or at least seasoned MMAs while us girls just want to learn how to fight off a rapist or ex-boyfriend gone mad and don’t have anywhere near their background and experience.
Apart from a select few males who regularly partner with girls the pumped up MMAs tend to stick with each other so we end up with a fair bit of gender-divide during 1-on-1 partnering.
During group drills its more mixed groups, though, that tend to be divided by skill levels rather than gender.Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
quote idbl_fanatic:I think he is referring to the class as a whole for that personcopy thanks
Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
quote KMKY:Sorry I should have been more clear. idbl_fanatic is correct. I am referring to the class for that individual being a failure and, by extension, that I as the instructor having failed the student.Hey KMKY, I think you’re being too hard on yourself!
I might get flamed for this but, IMO and IME, there is NO such technique that works for everyone against everyone. You will never hear me state that anything I teach is 100% effective. You will never hear me claim that a particular technique will work for the smallest, weakest, least experienced person against the biggest, strongest, most experienced person.
Furthermore, IF your students ARE 100% effective against every opponent, my first ASSumption would be that they aren’t pressure testing realistically enough.
Probably around 9-10 years ago, I was maybe a mid-level white belt in BJJ (no gi) (and I’m probably a mid-level blue belt now – which tells you how slowly I progress – ha). I distinctly remember rolling with one of my partners who was younger, bigger, stronger, and an actively competing brown belt. I was working on mount escapes and was pretty familiar with 3 different techniques at the time. He started off mounted on me and for the life of me, I couldn’t get him off. I couldn’t create space, I couldn’t go to guard, I couldn’t trap bump and roll, I couldn’t do anything. And he wasn’t even being offensive (using submissions).
In this video, Marcelo Garcia takes Renzo Gracie’s back at about 3:21 and keeps it for about SIX minutes! I’m pretty sure Renzo knows a thing or two about defending against someone who has your back – and it still took him that long…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBEs1OWrQcThere are LOTS of reasons why techniques may not work. Our students SHOULD be training to the point where they’re having trouble making them work or they’re not able to make them work at all. Then it’s up to us instructors to come in figure out why it’s not working for their particular situation and to try to fix it or find some other options/alternatives. And sometimes there isn’t much except “know how you can find yourself caught up in that position/situation and try not to let it happen to begin with”. (Which admittedly sounds like a cop out but unless he/she gets bigger, stronger, faster, meaner, nastier, and/or Better, etc there’s simply not much that can be done.)
If I can’t find a way to make it work for a student that day, I’ll usually go research and test/practice and then get back to the student with some other advice or things to try.
IMO, there are valuable lessons to be learned via Failures too!
Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
Speaking from a LE perspective, with the number of women committing violent acts it would be short sighted to not train with a woman. We are putting more and more female targets on the shooting range instead of the traditionally male “offender” looking targets. An active shooter, a terrorist, or any suspect for that matter should be a non-gender specific model. Male (and female) officers need to get used to the idea that they may need to use force against a female. Same goes for physical self-defense training… Equality is not just on the rise in society, but in the criminal population as well.
Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
quote Don:Hey KMKY, I think you’re being too hard on yourself!I might get flamed for this but, IMO and IME, there is NO such technique that works for everyone against everyone. You will never hear me state that anything I teach is 100% effective. You will never hear me claim that a particular technique will work for the smallest, weakest, least experienced person against the biggest, strongest, most experienced person.
Furthermore, IF your students ARE 100% effective against every opponent, my first ASSumption would be that they aren’t pressure testing realistically enough.
Probably around 9-10 years ago, I was maybe a mid-level white belt in BJJ (no gi) (and I’m probably a mid-level blue belt now – which tells you how slowly I progress – ha). I distinctly remember rolling with one of my partners who was younger, bigger, stronger, and an actively competing brown belt. I was working on mount escapes and was pretty familiar with 3 different techniques at the time. He started off mounted on me and for the life of me, I couldn’t get him off. I couldn’t create space, I couldn’t go to guard, I couldn’t trap bump and roll, I couldn’t do anything. And he wasn’t even being offensive (using submissions).
In this video, Marcelo Garcia takes Renzo Gracie’s back at about 3:21 and keeps it for about SIX minutes! I’m pretty sure Renzo knows a thing or two about defending against someone who has your back – and it still took him that long…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBEs1OWrQcThere are LOTS of reasons why techniques may not work. Our students SHOULD be training to the point where they’re having trouble making them work or they’re not able to make them work at all. Then it’s up to us instructors to come in figure out why it’s not working for their particular situation and to try to fix it or find some other options/alternatives. And sometimes there isn’t much except “know how you can find yourself caught up in that position/situation and try not to let it happen to begin with”. (Which admittedly sounds like a cop out but unless he/she gets bigger, stronger, faster, meaner, nastier, and/or Better, etc there’s simply not much that can be done.)
If I can’t find a way to make it work for a student that day, I’ll usually go research and test/practice and then get back to the student with some other advice or things to try.
IMO, there are valuable lessons to be learned via Failures too!
You are correct Don, I don’t expect every technique to work for everyone, but I would say they work 90% of people. I have a some older (65+) and some kids that the techniques do not work for as they are written, so I have to adjust those. The level 1 headlock doesn’t work for one of my students b/c she is vertically challenged so I had to adjust a guillotine defense for her. What I should have said is that it is my job as the instructor to find out why they aren’t working for an individual and then try to solve the problem.
Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
quote KMKY:You are correct Don, I don’t expect every technique to work for everyone, but I would say they work 90% of people. I have a some older (65+) and some kids that the techniques do not work for as they are written, so I have to adjust those. The level 1 headlock doesn’t work for one of my students b/c she is vertically challenged so I had to adjust a guillotine defense for her. What I should have said is that it is my job as the instructor to find out why they aren’t working for an individual and then try to solve the problem.I always say “the best technique is the one that works for you”.
In our classes we may show a number of different techniques for particular situations. We then pressure test people and they can see which one(s) are most successful for them. We do however stress that whilst it’s good to have options, people shouldn’t ‘overload their toolbox’. I’m sure we’re all familiar with ‘Hick-Hyman Law’.
Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
Hey Kirsten, long time no see, hope everything is going great with you and yours and you’re staying safe up there! I like what you’re doing with your shooting targets! We encourage (and force) our recruits to train with everyone else in the class, regardless of gender, size, age, etc.
KMKY, copy that. Speaking of vertically challenged, the smallest recruit that just graduated from our last academy class is 4′-09″. Great heart, great attitude, great work ethic and also came in with a little bit of previous MA experience. I will always worry about her, though, simply because of her size…
Wiccaman, regarding Hick-Hyman, absolutely – I will typically teach many more options for instructors than for users.
Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
I know it’s been a while since I posted on this thread but I am SO bothered.
Recently, I was in class and I was paired up with a young guy or teen. When we got to the groundwork, we were asked to split up and work in with another pair of the same gender. I tried really hard to control on my face my utter dismay and annoyance. Compliantly I went to work in with a pair of ladies.A couple months before that, I was in a group of three (a lady and a man) and when it came time for the groundwork part, the man stood off to the side and let only us ladies do the techniques. Eventually, the instructor worked the man in with a pair of guys. I was definitely upset then.
There is one lady instructor who the other week had us change partners during ground work, so I got to work with a man. We did a little ground sparring and he had to tap twice from a guillotine and armbar. This made me feel good, because that let me know that the BJJ I did is useful especially on the average Joe. The lady instructor actually thinks that women should get to work with men but the head instructor is not as open. I think she allowed it in spite of how the head instructor feels. She has let me pair with guys for groundwork a couple times.
Anyway, I am at the point of having had enough. Should I bother talking to the head instructor??? I feel like I feel so strongly about this that I might get upset with him and I really don’t want to do that. I am close to getting my next belt… Thinking about getting that and then just leaving.
Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
I would encourage you to speak to the head instructor. If it helps, write down exactly what you need to say. As much as I dislike wrestling with a 240 lb sweaty guy who is almost twice my size, I wouldn’t have it any other way. Maybe the owner needs a simple assurance you won’t sue for sexual harassment under any circumstance. Maybe it’s time to move on. Maybe you will make your school a better place for females to come. You will know what to do by the reaction you get. Let them know you are serious about becoming the best Kravist you can be! 🙂
Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
quote kravjitsu:I know it’s been a while since I posted on this thread but I am SO bothered.
Recently, I was in class and I was paired up with a young guy or teen. When we got to the groundwork, we were asked to split up and work in with another pair of the same gender. I tried really hard to control on my face my utter dismay and annoyance. Compliantly I went to work in with a pair of ladies.A couple months before that, I was in a group of three (a lady and a man) and when it came time for the groundwork part, the man stood off to the side and let only us ladies do the techniques. Eventually, the instructor worked the man in with a pair of guys. I was definitely upset then.
There is one lady instructor who the other week had us change partners during ground work, so I got to work with a man. We did a little ground sparring and he had to tap twice from a guillotine and armbar. This made me feel good, because that let me know that the BJJ I did is useful especially on the average Joe. The lady instructor actually thinks that women should get to work with men but the head instructor is not as open. I think she allowed it in spite of how the head instructor feels. She has let me pair with guys for groundwork a couple times.
Anyway, I am at the point of having had enough. Should I bother talking to the head instructor??? I feel like I feel so strongly about this that I might get upset with him and I really don’t want to do that. I am close to getting my next belt… Thinking about getting that and then just leaving.
This seems to be an ongoing issue with your school. Since the last time you posted about this, did you ever get to talk to the head instructor about this? When you do ask, also ask WHY he doesn’t allow men/woman pairs. I’m wondering did something happen at the gym before (someone got hurt, etc.) Either way, this is something that needs to be addressed.
Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
I forgot I mentioned one of my scenarios in the original post of this thread. I think for a while I ignored the ground stuff since it did not come up very often. It seems that the green belt and higher classes are more intense and I guess I was looking to wait and see if things would change once I was in the higher class. I am an orange belt now and will probably be testing for green this summer. I believe that is why I did not bring it up yet… that and I was gone for a while and not coming as often. Now I am coming back regularly and so the issue has cropped up again in my face.
I called another school locally yesterday (because I was so frustrated) that is bigger but a good bit further away. When I spoke with the head instructor there, I asked him about how his school does things. I really liked what I heard and they basically do the stuff that my school doesn’t…allow men and women to partner on ground, standup sparring in class, even some ground sparring, etc.
I asked him if he recognizes ranks from other school. He asked me what school I went to and when I did, he basically said that no one from my school has ever been at the rank they supposedly came in as and he made them start lower. He actually knew my head instructor and had another instructor and had them as students… albeit years ago. Overall, his thing was that whatever they are doing is not producing quality students. He said that he doesn’t want to bad mouth but when people ask why they can’t keep their rank, that’s why.
He told me he would assess me and go from there. So now, after that conversation and the frustrations I have already been feeling… and it’s not just about the ground stuff, I was thrown in a bit of a tail spin. I think I want to at least stay to get my green since I am so close. After that, I am considering going to the other school… even though it is definitely further way and I may even not be able to keep my rank.
I think I may mention the men/women ground partnering thing to my head instructor, but I don’t know if I have the interest or will to push it.
Re: Do Men and Women Train Together at Your School????
You should ask to take a free class (maybe that will be the assessment?) before making any decisions. Maybe a free week? :D:
I still think you should bring up the issue to the head instructor of the school you’re at right now. It might benefit future students with better quality instruction and training.
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